Van Competition Continues to Heat Up

[Chris_CommercialManager]

I'm telling you guys, this is becoming a fiercely contested portion of the market.  This is very interesting.

 

http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2015/03/06/mercedes-benz-vans-plant-500-million-plant-south-carolina/24490625/

[andy_george]

Wow, that surprises me. How fun to watch the market decisions in action!

[wollip]

I've been checking NV monthly/yearly sales figures at goodcarbadcar.net for a couple of years now.

 

If their info is correct, Nissan has been able to achieve 50% of annual Sprinter sales (13,000 + for NV versus 26,000 for Sprinter in 2014) in just

four years.

 

There are three in my small town (10,000 pop.) in rural Arkansas and our nearest NV dealer is a 90 minute drive. And it sounds like Chris has more units available for sale than the 8 to 10 dealers closest to me combined.

[Mc2guy]

Mercedes decision is a reflection of the fact that they no longer have the market cornered on Euro-style vans in the U.S. and can no longer get the premium they've been demanding for the last several years.  A U.S. based manufacturing location will reduce overall build costs considerably and will reduce import taxes and perhaps most importantly reduce FX exposure (If you build where you sell, your margins are protected from currency fluctuations).  This will allow Mercedes to stay generally cost competitive with Ford, their primary competitor.

 

That said, I still wouldn't buy one unless they consider reintroducing a gas-engine... 

[axulsuv]

I drive by the plant in Ladson all the time ... And know a few folks that work there ... That being said I'd never buy one . ( I know the local work force , scary thoughts...)

 It all gets down to no union , and low labor rates here I believe , And MB is avoiding tariff's / import duty's any way they can ...

And unless they bring alot of equipment over from germany for the refit of the plant , a whole lot of the van is still going to be outsourced . 

[radin2son]

My skepticism regarding Nissan's promotion of NVs is silenced. The new gold standard for city vans is the NV200 "Ultimate Smart BBQ Vehicle." Just add your favorite sports team graphics. But why does the video not show it in motion and how did all those people fit inside?

 

They should have saved this for 4/1. If you are curious, check out Truck Trend.

[axulsuv]

Yes , Nissan could kick a$$ on this segment with a few well placed ads showcasing the versatility and construction (showcase the body on FRAME construction of the full size vans and the usable space of our little brother ) of the whole NV line .

Not alot of folks really know they exist yet ...... 

 Just sayin ' 

Glenn

 

 And how can I still be a "New Member " ???

Edited March 7, 2015 by axulsuv

[vanguy]

Personally I don't believe you will see a price drop on the Sprinter vans even though their build cost may go down some. Just more profit for Mercedes Benz.

 

Sprinter has a big following in the delivery & expediter segment. I think the only reason those folks buy Sprinter is because of the diesel engines. I think Dodge & Ford will give them some competition now.

[Chris_CommercialManager]

See I think there will be price drop.  I was with Mercedes for years and have seen the popularity increase so much every year.  I just don't know how they will keep that going with the ford copy coming out if they don't make changes.  By doing this they they are all in.  They do very very well commercially around the world and are a very strong player from a financial standpoint in the industry.  If you don't think they are holding some cards and have a good game plan to combat ford I think we're all joking ourselves.  This must make chevy quiver too.  Their purposed imported euro van that may hit our shores will even possibly be at a price disadvantage right out of the box.  I think they undercut the ford on price and have a plan to reduce maintenance.  

 

Even if they accomplish those things Nissan is gaining a very strong presence in many specific markets they don't play in.  I think this will have little to no impact on us givin the present info.  Ford and Eventually Chevy may feel some pressure though.

[radin2son]

Starting to see quite a few Transit passenger vans, but only 1 low top cargo van in Tucson. White vans with commercial plates. Not sure where they were purchased. If they are fleet, they could be from anywhere.

 

Very few ProRams. All cargo.

[Mc2guy]

I'm seeing Transits of all configurations all over our roads.  Mostly cargo/work configurations, but several 15 passenger set ups as well.  Ford can and will dominate the commercial van market, it really is a matter of how much Mercedes is going to fight to hold onto the premium, high-mileage expediter types.  By moving production to the U.S., Mercedes they can reduce costs and pricing to be more competitive.  If they don't, they will lose ground very quickly as the Transit establishes itself.

 

Mercedes is committing to the U.S. market, which is good.  Competition brings better products and cheaper prices.  I agree it won't affect the NV much as it is largely a different consumer, I believe.  I still think MB needs a gas option if they want to grow market share.  Lower gas prices are here to stay for a while, and with a $1+ spread between gas and diesel, you have to REALLY want a diesel to justify the higher life cycle costs all around.

[MrOlaf]

I will post an entire topic later on but I just got back from a trip to Disney and sadly I seen many many new ford transit passenger vans, many in Disney's parking lots and many on the highways coming back home. It seems like ford has Florida and Georgia locked down in the passenger van market. I think I seen only one NV during my trip

[MrOlaf]

I thought I read something a while back about the passenger nvs being sold to large families instead of as shuttles at a rate of 9 to one. If this is true then I think nissan should embrace this and have an upgraded version of the passenger like Eddie Bauer. for example, visor mirrors, entertainment package, electric running boards, "embrace the niche"

[Mc2guy]

I agree Olaf.  The only problem is, one reason the NV has gotten a lot of large families to buy is the flexibility and comfort COMBINED with the low cost. Anything above $45k and you start competing with the Expedition/Suburban/Yukon market.  Start dropping pretty interiors, soft leather, and drop down DVD screens and the price starts to climb pretty quickly...

[Chris_CommercialManager]

I agree Olaf.  The only problem is, one reason the NV has gotten a lot of large families to buy is the flexibility and comfort COMBINED with the low cost. Anything above $45k and you start competing with the Expedition/Suburban/Yukon market.  Start dropping pretty interiors, soft leather, and drop down DVD screens and the price starts to climb pretty quickly...

 

Olaf I agree with you that they should offer something real nice like that.  

 

Mc2guy.... I think literally every person that I've had through my showroom doors has come through because a suburban type vehicle just won't work.  I truly believe NV passenger is in a league of it's own.  I sold a TON of 60k benz passengers and honestly it wasn't half as nice for a family (much more of a commuter shuttle).  

 

I'll say this about the Charlotte market...I see ALOT of NV's a day driving around here in charlotte.  I honestly see MAYBE 1 full size transits and maybe 1-2 Pro Masters.  I couldn't tell you how many chevy's and ford econolines I see of course.  I don't think I've EVER seen a Transit Passenger on the road.

[Mc2guy]

My point was this: If you add more content to the NV it becomes more expensive.  Make it more expensive, and it loses much of its appeal.  I agree it is a better solution than a suburban/expedition for many, but cost is a major factor.  

 

I've seen many many transits around here, including several passenger versions.  I even saw three separate passenger low-top transits when I was skiing at Sun Valley, ID this year, which surprised me.  As a livery van, the transit is a good solution since it offers the extra height/length options, but with a low cost to own/operate/maintain gas V6.  If Ford could get out of it's own way and make it a bit more user friendly for families (adjustable leg room in back to accommodate car seats, etc), the NV would lose out on some business.  As it is, I still would've considered a Transit, but for the lack of tow capacity.  There is a good reason they will outsell the NV 6:1... it's a good vehicle, just didn't fit my needs.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Mc2guy

[Chris_CommercialManager]

I don't know what it is, and I'm not just bashing.....but there is something about the ford that I'm just not sold on looks wise.  Although none of these vans are really "lookers"    :)

[Tatunka]

I agree Olaf.  The only problem is, one reason the NV has gotten a lot of large families to buy is the flexibility and comfort COMBINED with the low cost. Anything above $45k and you start competing with the Expedition/Suburban/Yukon market.  Start dropping pretty interiors, soft leather, and drop down DVD screens and the price starts to climb pretty quickly...

 

Price point and load capacity were to the two main reasons I bought this and not a 3/4 ton Burb.

[Mc2guy]

I don't know what it is, and I'm not just bashing.....but there is something about the ford that I'm just not sold on looks wise.  Although none of these vans are really "lookers"    :)

The NV is probably the king of ugly when it comes to vans.  Fortunately, it's growing on me.  Also, I don't have to look at it while I'm behind the wheel.  Also, that "ugly" nose, makes sitting behind the wheel pretty comfortable.

[radin2son]

I hope Truck Trend, or someone else, gets around to a head to head comparison of all vans in this sector and not exclude NVs. (Or at the very least, add the Transit and ProMaster to their long term test fleet.) I think NVs will be superior in dependability, sturdiness, versatility and cost of ownership, but will fall well short in interior load space due to not having an extended van.

 

Appearance won't matter even if mostly due to getting used to it. I bet most of the "It's not a van" Ford E-series critics of NVs have never sat in a NV, let alone driven one, to appreciate all the leg room and comfort when driving a NV.

Edited March 18, 2015 by radin2son

[radin2son]

What's up with Truck Trend picking on Nissan for a second April Fools in a row? Don't they know their story about the GT-R Titan Edition obscures the new NV, the Nismo-Patrol, a factory 4x4, diesel or gas with too many to mention shared Titan parts and options. The Nismo-Patrol developed to be a support/follow vehicle for off road truck racing will be available on 4/1/16. "The Euro vans can't do this. NV can!"

 

Source: April F.

[Romesh Prakashpalan]

When we bought our NV, the salesman had sold one the night before, and when ours was getting prepped another family came and started going into our NV and started checking it out like they wanted to purchase it. Our salesman had to tell them that we had bought that one, and they brought another one from the back. It seems like the "large family" segment really has taken to these vans - I can attest that there's little in our price range / vehicle size that would work for us. And for a top level NV, we paid about what a fully loaded minivan costs! Which is still far below a Suburban's.

 

And we can tow with the NV, something a minivan cannot really do. I think that if Nissan produced more NV Passenger vans, and had more dealers capable of selling/servicing them (another issue), then they'd still continue to fly off the lots. People are always fascinated by ours, and never even knew it existed!