Towing vs Passenger

[Powertrip]

Sitting here waiting for the info on new 2017's.

We plan on towing with this quite often: Boat, Toyhauler, Atv Flatbed,

Question,;is the newer motor and transmission going to be worth waiting for if towing ability is a priority over gas mileage?

Edited December 13, 2016 by Powertrip

[ASD Dad]

Preliminary reports are that it will be an 8% increase in mileage over the current model.  is 8% worth waiting for?  Do you trust new tech for both the motor and transmission?  Neither have been out longer than a few months in the Titan and upcoming Armada.  

 

The current motor and transmission have been out for many many years with few hiccups.  

 

Since there is not any pricing data on the new model we dont know what increase there will be.  You wont know how long 8% better will take to get your money back.  Nobody knows if it will tow better.  It should tow much better if it all works smoothly, a lot more HP and TQ (although Nissan detuned the motor for the NV which still makes me mad) with 2 more gears so the first 4 or 5 can be spaced better for towing with two overdrives when not towing.  

 

I have 30,000 miles on my 2015 and a lot of those are towing our Toyhauler.  It weighs in around 7700# loaded up and we have 3 kids and two 85# dogs that are in the van.  I've towed through the Blue RIdge mountains with no issues.  MPG when towing is going to be terrible as with any gas motor - figure 8-9mpg if you have some weight on the back.  You'll use 4th and even 3rd gear a lot when going up hills but all gas motors do that, you have to get into the meat of the torque curve to haul weight.  

 

I see you have a F350.  Not sure what motor you have but if it is the diesel you will be sorely disappointed in how the NV tows in comparison.  There just isnt any way to compare a 1T diesel truck to the NV.  You also have a lot more payload capacity.  If you have a F350 gas then it will be a lot more similar.  You also live out West in the big mountains, you'll need to wait for others to chime in who have towed at those elevations with this gas motor.  Again, if you have a diesel it will be even worse in trying to compare vs. a gas motor up there!  Forget an apples and oranges comparison we're talking a watermelon vs. a grape at that point.  

[Powertrip]

Yes,I do have a modded 7.3l. And it is a beast, but it is coming up on 20 years old. It has cost me almost 6k to keep running in the past 18 months. New trucks are $70k+. and used $40k units have tons of miles. We have several friends who have NV's and like them, so that is our plan, but are deciding if we should buy now of wait till spring? I may even keep the F350, as it's worth more to me than the value I'll get selling it. I have 4 kids that want to take friends boating and the two oldest are racing for High school Mtn bike team. So traveling in NV will be way more comfortable than 6 in cab of truck.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Powertrip

[aabel]

7.3 PS is one of my favorite motors of all time! They pull like a freight train! You can tow 15K lbs. and almost not even feel it. The NV will be completely different in regards to towing. What is the weight of your toy hauler? I'm guessing the other items aren't going to be that heavy, (under 5K lbs.) but toyhaulers can get up there.

[Powertrip]

Just sold a 35' weekend warrior. Going to buy something that can fit a 4-seat RZR and towable by NV.

[ASD Dad]

It is going to be VERY hard to not go over payload and combined weight rating on a NV towing a TH that can also haul a 1500 lb 4 seat RZR in the garage.  Combined is around 16,000 lbs all in.  Tow specs are currently around 8900 lbs.  Hauling that much weight and in those mountains?  Keep the F350!  

[aabel]

Just get one of these!

[Powertrip]

I have looked at those many times....what i need is someone to take the motor and trans out of my current Ford and Stuff it into the NV.

 

Or Nissan to get off their butts and put a big diesel in the 2017!!! I'd put a deposit on one today.

[ASD Dad]

The Titan Cummins 5.0 V8 is rumored to be coming but it's nowhere near what a true towing diesel should be - the 6cyl Cummins, Duramax or Power Stroke - in the HD trucks of the domestics.

[aabel]

555 ft. Lbs. of torque before ECM tune still isn't bad. After a tuner, and/or a couple more psi of boost it would be pretty sweet!

 

Stacks out the top of the hood?

[andy_george]

I'd say the 5.0 Cummins is pretty respectable, as far as power and torque. It's not setting any benchmarks, but it's also got higher output than the previously mentioned 7.3 Powerstroke ever had from the factory. Pickups today are just in a "big d*ck" competition, grossly overpowered for their chassis. When pickups have more power and torque than the medium duty Freightliners, Internationals, etc, there is a serious imbalance. And it's almost to the point they claim higher tow ratings than "real" trucks.... That doesn't mean they are better or safer doing it......

[andy_george]

I like to think of it this way..... My Dad has been an owner-operater grain truck driver his whole career. Loaded he can legally scale 162,000 pounds. His 2014 Western Star makes 1850ft.lbs of torque. Even the most powerful class 8 trucks today top out around 2000ft.lbs. Now I'll admit they have much different gearing, make max torque at lower rpms, etc, but let's just compare max torque numbers..... Is it really necessary that pickups that I'd guess 90% of the owners never pull anything over 10,000lbs. have 1/2 the torque of Dads semi? That's 1/2 the torque to do 1/16th the work!

 

Now I'm not saying it's bad. We own a new diesel pickup, and it's awesome! But to say that much power is "necessary" is absurd. It's like saying every car should have the power of the Corvette ZL1, and laughing at someone who makes a car with the output of the Camaro SS. It may be less,but it's still plenty, and it's actually more usable to its full potential in 90% of the cases. That's where the 5.0 Cummins falls in my mind.

[ASD Dad]

555 ft. Lbs. of torque before ECM tune still isn't bad. After a tuner, and/or a couple more psi of boost it would be pretty sweet!

 

Stacks out the top of the hood?

 

Add a tuner and you insta-void your warranty in most cases on a diesel.  On a gasser it is harder to mess things up with a tuner.  I would need to be an outright idiot, max my timing, and run bad gas while towing through the Rockies at full throttle to get my Bully Dog to do any damage.  Even then the ECU may still override things if you abuse it that bad.  You start messing with boost and other settings on a diesel and you get giant gains but can also pop the engine if you are just doing it without much thought behind it.  I have friends that have run modded diesels for 100K miles with zero issues but they are also careful and stay on top of things.  Others go nuts and wonder why they have a cracked piston!  

 

Look, I agree the new 5.0 Cummins is a decent motor and the monsters in the new domestics are/could be overkill.  I just feel like the 5.0 is slotted weird along with the Titan itself.  It's not quite HD enough to do that job but it is too heavy and not efficient enough to be a 1/2T winner.  It also isnt cheap with options.  If you refuse to drive domestic then it is the only choice for certain needs.  I havent driven a domestic in over a decade.  BUT - if I needed a new pickup that could haul what the Titan does I am not convinced I would be looking at it first vs. a domestic.  

 

Back to the OP, I think it will be pretty hard to find a TH with a garage big enough for a 4 seat RZR that is light enough for the NV to haul it through the mountains or even the flats once that TH is fully loaded with the RZR, gas, accessories, etc.  You dont just haul an empty RZR!  Doesnt matter if you toss that all in the NV either, I think the 16,000 combined would be reached quickly.

[ASD Dad]

I'd say the 5.0 Cummins is pretty respectable, as far as power and torque. It's not setting any benchmarks, but it's also got higher output than the previously mentioned 7.3 Powerstroke ever had from the factory. Pickups today are just in a "big d*ck" competition, grossly overpowered for their chassis. When pickups have more power and torque than the medium duty Freightliners, Internationals, etc, there is a serious imbalance. And it's almost to the point they claim higher tow ratings than "real" trucks.... That doesn't mean they are better or safer doing it......

 

HP and TQ wars are fun though!  I remember when the Viper came out with it's monster V10.  400hp and 450tq.  I thought wow, that is crazy and nobody will need more or see more than those numbers.  That output is almost laughable these days for many vehicles!  For a sports car forget it, those numbers are a base model.  There are 6 cyl motors out there with those numbers now.  Now you have 700hp Hellcats that can light up the back tires going down the highway.  

 

Overkill?  Absolutely!  But it is fun to watch.  

[andy_george]

I agree completely. The competition is awesome, and improves the breed. It's just funny to watch guys spend 70 grand on a truck with enough power to pull a train and they hook it up to their pop-up camper :)

[HestGW2]

So on the website right now the 2017 NVP v8 has 387 LB-FT @ 5,800 rpm's (almost red-line). The 2016 NVP v8 has 385 LB-FT @ 3,400 rpm's. So does this make the 2016 better at towing or maybe better on starting from a dead stop?

[NVAir]

i doubt it. the 7 speed transmission should help. and even setting that aside, its likely the torque curves are pretty flat. what you are seeing are the peaks. im sure the 2017 model will have plenty of torque at 3500 rpm.