Smart or dumb alternator?

[DesertTed]

Hi all,

I'm wiring the electric system and just ran into this small print:

 

"If the alternator is a"smart alternator" that can be switched on/off at runtime by the engine control module or similar, please see separate installation guideline".

 

With a quick search, I found this from an Australian site:

 

"Can I use the CTEK D250S Dual in a vehicle with a smart alternator?"

 

The answer is as follows:

"You can use a CTEK D250S Dual in a vehicle with a smart alternator provided that you have an automotive relay installed".

 

It went on:

"CTEK Sweden have devised a simple solution for using your CTEK D250S Dual with a smart alternator. By including a 30A automotive relay into your system, you can successfully install a CTEK D250S Dual into your modern vehicle with a smart alternator.

 

The CTEK D250S Dual DC-DC charger will charge, condition and maintain your dual battery system, with the ability to charge from both your alternator while your vehicle is running, and your solar panels while your vehicle is turned off. The relay is designed to go between these two power sources and your CTEK D250S Dual, and is activated by vehicle ignition. Allowing the CTEK D250S Dual to work with a smart alternator.

 

These relays are available on request from Bainbridge Technologies or your local stockist

 

Please see the diagram below to get an idea how to incorporate the automotive relay into your system" (I couldn't get the diagram in here)

 

Anyone know? Does anyone know, if we do have smart alternators, what harm, if any, will occur while using the CTEK without the relay? I wasn't able to find out the type of the NV's alternator.

 

Gadzooks! I hate small print unless it is in my favor, which it seldom is.

 

Thank you,

Ted

Edited January 3, 2017 by DesertTed

[wollip]

I am certainly no expert on this but my experience with installing my own Ctek system tells me you don't have to worry about this particular point. You can just hook it up and use it. Ours is not the type of alternator that requires a relay.

Been using my system for several months now and love everything about it but the initial cost.

[wollip]

I'll also say this about the Ctek dc to dc system - the company makes you work for information. It is like electrical engineers wrote a brief note to other electrical engineers. I've found it difficult to be confident that I had the correct information and that I finally had the bulk of the information needed to proceed with my install. All besides the fact that I have no background with dc systems so had to learn as I went forward. In other words, they really made me do my homework.

But the whole point of DIY for me was to learn something new.

I suspect many people could just look at the box it came in and say "no sweat".

[DesertTed]

You've got that right! I have a letter already out to CTEK about the maximum voc for solar input. The paper manual says the max is 22voc, whereas the online manual say 23voc. There's a couple of solar panels I like that run from 21.8 to 22.81voc. Naturally, the ones that would give me the max Watts are the ones best sized for my set up. The 22.81voc ones. When I get a response from CTEK(hopefully I do), I'll post it.

 

So, I know that you have the CTEK system. Do you also have the Smartpass, and do you have a relay set up? Dya know what kind of alternator we have? There are smart alternators on some Nissan cars, but I've not been able to find info on the NV-nor on the Titans, which would have the same set up as the NV, I suppose.

 

One other question for you: since I scour the web, I've found some conflicting viewpoints on where to ground the CTEK. Where is your ground?

 

Thank you,

Ted

[DesertTed]

Oops, Wollip, I didn't see your first response, my tablet just scrolled to the last post.

 

It's good to hear that about our alternators. I was hoping, that since our vehicles use the electrical items like the inverter and more, that Nissan wouldn't mess with the alternator. One less thing to worry about!

Thanks!

[wollip]

I will attempt in this reply to post some pics related to my Ctek install - we'll see how that goes.

As you can see, I don't have a solar panel yet, dragging my feet on that for awhile since I don't really have to have one.

I don't know how to adequately talk shop regarding all things automotive so bear with me.

I did not ground my system using a "home run" wire from front to back like I did with the positive side.

Instead, I am grounded utilizing the passenger side rail of the ladder frame. Up front, I ran an additional grounding cable

from the starter battery down to the rail of the ladder frame. It was a little less expensive to do it this way but introduced too many points for potential failure. So, if I were to do it again I'd just run the second wire. I did attach this to the negative post of the starter battery only to read later in the upfitters guide that they don't recommend this. They suggest in the guide that you use a grounding point near the battery. But, I haven't had any known issues with my setup so I have left it as is. (Note to anyone who knows - please advise if I am wrong to leave this like this.)

 

My AGM battery is located directly behind the cabinet wall of the Ctek equipment installation. I also have a Victron battery monitor installed

but that doesn't change the basic Ctek install.

 

All clear as mud, I'm sure. More questions are always welcome.

[wollip]

One other thing - I had at one point one cable to use and it was red. So, you'll probably notice an instance of a red wire where a black one would have been correct.

[DesertTed]

Funny, I have that charger coming in tomorrow from Amazon. I'm going to leave it loose, so I can use it elsewhere.

 

I talked to a couple of people about Voc. Apparently, the normal Voc is calculated for 25C (77F). For every degree Celsius the temperature goes down, the Voc will increase 0.31-0.36%. That's a lot! And altitude affects it similarly (every 1000 feet gain in elevation increases the Voc 1%). We're planning to camp at high altitude and in cold weather. I don't know if the D250S will handle the solar as the available panels are all 21 Voc or greater.

 

I guess I'll get another letter out to CTEK. And with that question, will I be able to hook up an MPPT charge controller to the battery bank that's already attached to the CTEK system?

 

It's a wonderful world where such a quandary is a priority.

[wollip]

OMG - I feel like Charlie Brown listening to his teacher. I so didn't understand any of that - but in my defense I haven't looked into solar yet. Do they have dumb solar to match the dumb alternator?

But, doesn't the D250s have a built in mppt controller? Or maybe you said that already.

[DesertTed]

The CTEK people got back to me. They said that the systems are now at the max 23Voc instead of the old 22 Voc limit. I ended up getting two 140 watt panels with the Voc at 21.6. No need for an MPPT. And no problem using my Renogy 100watt portable solar panels in addition to the rooftop solar.

 

With the rooftop and portable panels together we'll have 380 watts total of solar, which should be okay with our 300AH battery bank. We may occasionally have to charge with the engine, but we don't plan on staying stationary for more than a week or so in that case. It looks like we'll be able to use my 800 watt Keurig coffee maker. Yeah!!!

Edited January 17, 2017 by DesertTed