Need 4WD Conversion Advice

[Coloraaahdo]

Hello 4WD Nissan Van Owners,

I need your help. My husband and I want to buy a Nissan cargo van and convert it ourselves into a camper van. The discussion in our home is….do we need to do a 4WD conversion?

 

My husband (the theoretical engineer, who likes to save money and get good gas mileage) says we don’t need a 4WD conversion and I am trying to convince him that we do need a 4WD conversion. The problem is I have ZERO knowledge of the mechanics of motorized vehicles or 4WD components and so I can’t convince him. Can you please help?

 

He says rear wheel vehicles have a bad rap and now a days they come with stabilization blah blah that keeps them from swerving around in the back. He says we can load the van down with weight to also keep it from swerving. And that big, treaded tires are more important than 4WD.

 

He also says the 4WD isn’t worth it unless you’re going to do a lift and the lift will make the van unstable and unsafe on the highway. Is that true? (We would want the lift for deep snow and rock in Colorado.)

 

I think the 4WD will help significantly with driving through bad weather and snow on the highway and over passes, making it significantly safer (he says no). I also think we need the 4WD for washboard dirt roads, scree, deep snow, and camping in national forests.

 

We plan on using the van on rocky, sometimes steep, dirt roads in the Rocky Mountains and camping off the grid in places like in Moab. We don’t want to “go 4-wheeling” for the sake of “4-wheeling” but we want to be able to get to remote places. Right now, our all-wheel drive Subaru Forester is usually able to get us to “most” of the places we like to camp.  Besides backcountry stuff, we also plan on using the van for long distance highway traveling across the states, going from Colorado to Key West to Maine.

 

And then on top of it, there is one more pretty big problem…..Quigley doesn’t do a low 4WD conversion, only a 4-high. We can’t go with another vehicle (Ram, Sprinter, Ford) because we are both over 6 feet tall and need all the leg room that the Nissan van provides on the passenger side.  We know we can go with Advanced 4WD Systems for a conversion and get a low gear but then I’m worried about it going “limp” and I haven’t read good things about Advanced’s workmanship. Whereas I’ve read great things about Quigley’s attention to detail, professionalism, reputation, etc.

 

If we go with Quigley and don’t have the low gear, does that mean we won’t be able to go on steep rocky inclines or through deep snow or mud or sand, or steep slick rock surfaces? We won’t be doing a lot of that kind of stuff but will definitely be in those situations from time to time. Will the 4-high gear work in the situations I just described??? If not, then even I can’t convince or justify a 4WD conversion for $11,700 to my husband. 

 

Any advice, recommendations or descriptions of 4-high situations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your time!

 

 

[DesertTed]

I don't think I would do 4wd just because of mandatory lift. I was on a pretty gnarly dirt track (I was lost) in October. I was staying out of the very deep ruts and at several points, I was at such a steep sideways angle, I was regretting the high center of gravity that I had with the stock ground clearance. It was "hold on and hope for the best". Even if I had a lift, I would have been concerned that the wheels didn't have a great enough diameter to keep me going in the deep ruts.

 

Over the decades, though, with very careful and very slow picking out my path, I have found that I've been able to go amazing places with 2wd, both front and rear. I had a little fwd Toyota Corolla that I took everywhere. I carry a tow strap, the wheel thingies to help getcha out of sand and mud, a bigger bottle jack, a shovel and a shackle. I also have the tow hooks. I don't have a winch and I hope I don't regret that.

 

But, if the Hubby ain't happy, maybe you won't be. My Hubby and I ended up with his and her vans because of our different styles and travel desires. He would have had a heart attack on that drive I mentioned above. Wuss.

[radin2son]

Your planned use says no to 4x4. NVs are 20’, heavy trucks with limits where you can go. Just like awd Subarus have limits.

 

Manual mode lets you lock out gears you will not need and shift down as needed. Lock it in 2nd or 1st and you can get to most places and back. (The longest tow we know of was a mechanical near Moab. First tow* to Moab, second tow to a commercial dealer in Salt Lake City. Not sure if getting stuck would be covered.)

 

Just watch your clearance. There is plenty.

 

Get the V8. Given some of the reported problems with the new V8, I would look for a used 2015-16 with most of the warranty* left.

 

We tend to keep our vehicles stock and have not been disappointed by the toughness of NVs as is. The stock Firestone Transforce are a good tire and we had no problems wherever we went. We replaced them with Michelin Defender tires, a better tire for the trips we completed recently.

[laharview]

Welcome!

 

I have to echo the above responses.  My NV is the first 4x2 I have owned and have been very happy with the off grid places I have gone to.  I was thinking a conversion however after two years and over 130 days out I have not found a need.  She drives and handles very nice in stock configuration.

 

When in doubt stop and scout out ahead on foot.  I always carry chains and would use them in the mud/snow if needed.

 

For a conversion definitely the V-8 in a 2500 or 3500.  Check out my build under Laharview Farm Camper.

 

Best Regards,

Mike

[radin2son]

Depending on your build, it could add 1000# to the curb weight, which just happens to be the approximate curb weight of an NVP. Rather than rattle around in an empty cargo van for a test drive, take out the passenger van. You will get a better sense of how capable these NVs are.

 

If your husband can be swayed by photos, go to Outside Van and take a look at their NV Kodiac build. Sportsmobile no longer converts NVs, but their Sprinter 4x4 conversion is worth a “look” it only a look...

[mahu]

Lets work through this one by one. :-)

 

He says rear wheel vehicles have a bad rap and now a days they come with stabilization blah blah that keeps them from swerving around in the back.

He is right. Properly driven rear wheel drive cars/vans can be just as stable and in certain situations even more than front wheel vehicles. the NVs have stability control which works well. Once you have some weight in the back it'll be planted very solidly!

 

And that big, treaded tires are more important than 4WD.

Sorry to say, but he is VERY right. It's all in the tires! And not that "all season" crap, but dedicated well-reviewed winter tires.

Look at this comparison https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STaximkaQxo

 

He also says the 4WD isn’t worth it unless you’re going to do a lift and the lift will make the van unstable and unsafe on the highway. Is that true? (We would want the lift for deep snow and rock in Colorado.)

Especially if are getting the high roof model the lift would significantly shift the center of gravity. Whenever I see (and the times I have ridden in friend's lifted Sprinters) I am so glad we don't have a lifted van. They look/feel like they are seconds from tipping over. 

 

I think the 4WD will help significantly with driving through bad weather and snow on the highway and over passes, making it significantly safer (he says no).

He is right yet again. The only significant advantage of 4WD is driving up steep slopes on or off pavement in mud or snow. 4WD does not enhance your stability on wet, icy, or snowy roads. Stability comes from the tires and your driving skills. Stopping distance and control in corners has nothing to do with 4WD. We have driven our NV for two years living at 6500 feet in Tahoe with plenty of snow. No problems. 

 

I also think we need the 4WD for washboard dirt roads, scree, deep snow, and camping in national forests.

Mostly no. In deep snow 4WD might make a difference if you are on a steeper slope but things like good snow tires are far more important. 

In terms of where you can get on a RWD NV just look on instagram, e.g. @vanlifetravelogue. That guy pretty much takes his NV wherever he wants!

 

We plan on using the van on rocky, sometimes steep, dirt roads in the Rocky Mountains and camping off the grid in places like in Moab. We don’t want to “go 4-wheeling” for the sake of “4-wheeling” but we want to be able to get to remote places.

There may be a select few places you would be able to take a 4WD NV that you cannot take a RWD, but then again the question is do you want to push your NV that close to its capabilities and getting stranded in the middle of nowhere? From my experience 4WD often gives a false sense of capability and more often than not gets people deeper into trouble than they would have otherwise gone with a 2WD.

 

 

Besides backcountry stuff, we also plan on using the van for long distance highway traveling across the states, going from Colorado to Key West to Maine.

It looks like you'll be putting lots of miles on it so think of reduced gas mileage, increased maintenance costs, increased instability due to lift, for all those thousands of miles on the freeway. It adds up quickly and those costs need to be factored into the price of the conversion!

 

And then on top of it, there is one more pretty big problem…..Quigley doesn’t do a low 4WD conversion, only a 4-high. We can’t go with another vehicle (Ram, Sprinter, Ford) because we are both over 6 feet tall and need all the leg room that the Nissan van provides on the passenger side.  We know we can go with Advanced 4WD Systems for a conversion and get a low gear but then I’m worried about it going “limp” and I haven’t read good things about Advanced’s workmanship. Whereas I’ve read great things about Quigley’s attention to detail, professionalism, reputation, etc.

I can't speak to this, but have read good things about Advanced here in the forum.

 

So, as all things in life it's about the balance of things. Yes, there may be a handful of situations you will have to turn around where you could have otherwise traveled on with a 4WD. But are those few occasions worth the conversion costs, higher operating costs, and reduced stability? In my opinion they are not and it's not even close. 90% of your concerns can be addressed with proper tires, gear and driving. Sorry to say, but I think your husband may win this round...

[ASD Dad]

Just to echo what has been said above - TIRES.

 

4WD just helps you get unstuck when you get stuck.  You normally get stuck because you have 4WD and think the vehicle is invincible.  

 

I was a ski and snowboard instructor for many years.  I always drove 2wd sports cars.  I had a dedicated set of snows on winter wheels and would drive right past stuck 4WD and AWD SUV's and cars who were on their "all season" tires.  

 

Do you really want to take a 6500 pound, 20 foot long, 7 foot tall vehicle for serious off roading?!  

[Coloraaahdo]

Mahu, Your analysis brought a tear to my eye.  -The husband

[mahu]

You are welcome! -also a husband ;-)

[andy_george]

All great advice and info. The general consensus is what I wanted the say to the original post, but with zero off-road experience in the NV I don’t have real world experience. Just my own narrow mind:)

 

Love this van, this forum, and the smart, helpful people on it.....

[peter_fazio]

Coloraaadho,

 

  Well, I think I will give you the opposite take on the 4WD NV.  I have a 2013 NV3500 passenger with the Quigley 4WD conversion.  I spent the first 3 years with my van having RWD.  I found that I got stuck in lots of places where it was just slippery (ie wet muddy grass, dirt inclines, etc).  I typically would be towing a trailer full of dirtbikes.  The stock tires (Firestone Transforce) were almost useless in anything even remotely loose or slippery.  I upgraded to BFG All Terrain KO2 tires.  They were a huge improvement in traction, but I still had lots of difficulties especially in wet muddy fields ( like you would find at dirtbike events in the Northeast).  The so-called active traction control on the rear axle helps, but is very limited in its ability to transfer drive torque to the other (non-slipping) wheel.  I would contend IF you could equip the NV rear axle with a proper locking differential then it would be much more capable in low traction situations.  So, about a year ago I had my NVP converted by Quigley.  BTW, they do an outstanding job, it really looks like a factory setup.  Since, I have been converted to 4WD, essentially all my traction issues have gone away.  I now can tow my trailers up slippery hills and go where I need to go w/o having to resort to chains or other temporary traction aids.  Personally, I love it.  I have been driving full size vans for 40 years and have always put up with the marginal traction that comes with the standard RWD setup in vans.  I now feel like I can take my NVP offroad w/o being concerned about getting stuck.  Now as to the lift, my NVP does not have a lift.  It is still the stock height after the 4WD conversion.  Quigley will convert the NV with or w/o a lift.  As to the low range in the transfer case, the Quigley conversion does have a 2 speed transfer case.  The shift lever is blocked from engaging 4WD low range.  I have personally removed the blocking bracket and manually shifted the transfer case into low range.  Yes, the Quigley transfer case does have low range, but you will have to modify the shifter linkage to be able to engage low range from inside the cab.  All in all, I am happy with my 4WD conversion, I feel, that it makes my van much more capable while off pavement.

 

                                                                            Pete Fazio

[radin2son]

Good counter review. KMG and Jon Nelson had 4wd high top conversions. KMG bought his Quigley NV at a dealership and I believe Jon had his NV converted by Advanced after purchase.

 

KMG sold his but check out his posts. Jon rarely posts here but can be found on the Overland forum.

 

KMG did a cross country trip in his and posts include a mpg summary.

 

I agree about the Transforce tires not being off road tires. I should have said that are a good tire for highway use. Mine lasted 62,000 miles until AZ took its toll on the side walls. Axulsuv (NV 1500) reported his had over 75,000 miles with plenty of tread left.

Edited November 7, 2017 by radin2son

[Alaskan]

Coloraaaghdo-

 

I'm interested in the lift and conversion as well.

 

I spoke with Quigley yesterday and they are not doing 2017 conversions at this time. My hearing isn't the greatest, but I'm pretty sure that this was the gist of it. The salesman indicated that were re-engineering the parts due to the design changes in the 5.6L and the new 7 speed transmission. Expected to be completed sometime in February. Which would coincide with the release of the 2018 NV.

Quigley has a stocking dealer near their plant. You can get the conversion/lift through the dealership and have it included in the purchase price. Plus you get a road trip, fly and drive!

[radin2son]

Be sure to check the PA sales tax, fees and temporarily registration. You will most likely face the choice of this or having your NV shipped to you or the dealer in Anchorage and pay AK fees and registration.

 

Also check out how it will be delivered. Our NV SMB was going to be driven here. We have seen quite a few “delivered” conversions being driven rather than put on a flat bed.

 

You can’t beat a road trip...

[Mark Rogers]

Coloraaaghdo-

 

I'm interested in the lift and conversion as well.

 

I spoke with Quigley yesterday and they are not doing 2017 conversions at this time. My hearing isn't the greatest, but I'm pretty sure that this was the gist of it. The salesman indicated that were re-engineering the parts due to the design changes in the 5.6L and the new 7 speed transmission. Expected to be completed sometime in February. Which would coincide with the release of the 2018 NV.

Quigley has a stocking dealer near their plant. You can get the conversion/lift through the dealership and have it included in the purchase price. Plus you get a road trip, fly and drive!

 

When I bought my NV last year, I asked the dealership (Tim Dahle Southtowne in Utah) about 4WD.  The salesman said their in-house mechanics could install the Quigley 4WD kit if I wanted it.  So, you might be able to save some miles if you ask a few nearby dealerships.

[Bamps]

I 4x4 a lot. Have in the past many yrs. have have Jeeps from the 40’s CJ to the YJ in the early 90’s. I decided to not convert my NV. It was not designed to 4X in, i is too big and heavy and basically will not take you out where you may think. I get off grid a lot in mine, two wheel drive is plenty for the purpose. I have a nissan Frontier 4wd presently too and it gets me anywhere i need to go but the NV stays on dirt roads that i feel comfortable with while the Fronty gets me up old abandoned mining roads ect that are rougher.

[laharview]

Suzi gets unloaded when the going is tough.

 

[bsomers]

I know that I am a bit late on this thread but I have a few comments to the original poster.

 

First, the NV is very large and if you get stuck it will take serious effort to get it out. For example, if you get stuck in your Subaru, you may me able to dig a little, rock it back and forth, and get out with one person pushing. If you get a full size van stuck you will probably need serious help to get it out. With the kind of activities you mention in the region you travel, I recommend getting the 4x4 conversion.

 

Second, you can get the conversion without the lift. 4x4 without the lift will still give you access to tons of places that 2 wheel drive will not. If you do a lot of travel in snow and ice, or travel a lot of dirt roads with soft sands, the 4x4 will be worth every penny. Since you want access to more places and are not looking to do any serous off roading, I think the 4x4 conversion with no lift will be good for you.

 

Lastly, if you decide to not get the 4x4 conversion there are some cheaper options that will help you out. Look into getting a locker for your rear differential. I recommend something like an ARB locker that you can manually turn on or off. A differential Locker will nearly double your traction but they don't do well in tight turns so being able to turn it on and off is very handy. For the snow and Ice, look into automatic chains like ambulances and school buses have, you may be able to have then installed on a large van. Search Instachain on youtube and you will see how they work. You could probably get a locker and instachains installed at half the cost of the 4x4 conversion.

[Ferrugenfish]

Anyone have any updates on this or options other than Quigley or Advanced 4x4?  What about that Chris guy at U-Bolt?  My NV also gets stuck SO easily on simple stuff like wet grass or mud... not even much incline, like just going in and out of a duck hunting club, getting stuck feeling like an idiot cause I can't even turn around without getting stuck in a little wild grass. So I hope you ended up getting 4x4 and hopefully you can share what you learned about the options and why you chose what you did?  Or did hubby convince you that the cargo van has good traction as is?  Oh and PS my 32" (no lift) KO2s did help, but the limited slip diff is... well it's one for a cargo van in town, but when you actually need the system to transfer torque in a traction-needed situation, it's useless. 

Edited February 12 by Ferrugenfish
added detail

[Local Apparent Friday]

Chris at ujoint isn't doing NVs I don't think. Tim Dahle is another option, but i had not a lot of luck getting them to provide an estimate.

 

Surprised you've had issues with KO2.  I'm running BFG and have been off on the beach in hatteras without getting stuck, although running appropriate offroad pressures.

Edited February 15 by Local Apparent Friday