Quigley New and Pre-Owned conversions

[Decades]

I found this on the website:

http://www.quigley4x4.com/Products/NissanProducts/ConvertYourPreOwnedVehicle.aspx

They do not just convert new vehicles!

 

I just picked up mine today and could not be happier with the quality of the work!

Decades

[Tatunka]

+1^

[Jon Nelson]

Can either of you Quigley owners comment on the 4x4 capabilities?  I'm out west and primary travel areas can involve sand.  Desert or beach sand.  DEEP SOFT SAND.  I'm worried about the absence of 4 Low.  My Ford 4x4 friends tell me not to bother with the Nissan because of the absence of 4 low.  They say I could not go where they go or keep up with them in caravans.

 

Any thoughts?

[Tatunka]

I always thought what you needed in sand was horsepower and flotation (wider) tires.  I mostly deal in mud, snow/ice, and two track rutted roads, so far the NV has been great.  I haven't missed low gear except for when I pull out the dock in the fall, high does the trick but tears up the grass more.  One thing that I do think would matter in sand would be the absence of a full time locker in the rear.  If you are thinking about a more off road capable NV I would look at Advanced4x4.  They are in Utah and can modify the NV more then Quigley, Quigley is more set up for OEM style reliability vs. off road prowess. 

 

Oh, the last time I talked to Quigley the transfer case IS a two speed case (HI and LOW), but because of the speed sensor placement on the drive shaft when shifted into LOW the computer freaks out and shuts the engine down and throws a bunch of codes.  At that time Quigley was working with Nissan to remedy the issue, but this was last May 2013.  They told me when they find a work around they would send a note and the update would be available at the dealers.  Maybe Advanced4x4 has a work around, it would be worth asking.

 

 

Side Question: Does anyone know what the style the rear end is in the NV?  It would be nice if it was something simple to be able to drop a LSD or locker in.

[Jon Nelson]

Is the Quigley Nissan 4x control a switch or a lever through the floor (like on Sportsmobiles, Quigley Fords, Quadvan Fords)? If the Hi/Low is an electrical thing I'm wondering if the control is a switch...

A mechanic friend who has been under a Nissan once told me in passing last week that he thought the rear in the USA NV might be a US sourced item. I'm going to see him this week and have him contact his Nissan tech friend to confirm or deny this A locker for the rear would be awesome! If it's a US axle that should be easy. If it's a Titan rear axle I bet there are aftermarket solutions for that as well.

Back to you Tatunka, what kind of gas mileage are you getting? Dismal fuel mileage might be the only drawback (besides the $ which with 4x4 conversion is real close to what the Ford Transit $ might be) to me saying yes to buying a 4x converted Nissan.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Jon Nelson

[axulsuv]

If I get a chance I'll try and find out where the rear end is sourced from ...  Some of the Nissan techs I've trained thru the years still like me ....? ' cause a lsd or a locker would be something I'd like to have for some of my adventures ...!

Glenn

Edited February 9, 2014 by axulsuv

[Tatunka]

I found some more information

 

The rear axle is made by American Axle Manufacturing, they make axles for GM and Chrysler/Jeep also.  Quigley and Advanced4x4 both use the AAM front axle also, 9.25 IFS same as GM.

 

I was told by two different 4x4 shops that a locker for the rear of a NV does not exist as of yet. :cry:

 

And yes the Quigley is a manual lever that switches the transfer case and sends a signal to an actuator that locks the front axle shafts.

 

Gas mileage is about 11-13 city 14-16 hwy, not too bad considering I run around with about 5-700lbs of junk in the back and taller tires.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Tatunka

[Tatunka]

I did forget to ask if the rear is a full float or semi-float, but that easy see with the naked eye.

[dented]

It's been a while, but I thought I would chime in. I have talked to a dozen or more companies that make locking differentials or sell them. NOBODY is planning to EVER make one at this point for the NV, so it will always be a 2wd at best, even after spending 11k or more for a "4wd" conversion. Sadly. ARB doesn't anticipate that the NV will be a lasting platform, or that there will ever be any demand for it. Straight from the horses mouth, it will never happen. 

Which is why I will be looking for someone to make me a custom rear axle instead, out of a Ford, or Dodge one ton. 

[Jon Nelson]

"2wd at best"????  Even with a transfer case and a front axle system?  An NV is hardly a "2wd" after 4x4 conversion.  More limited than a locker equipped vehicle, yes.  But still 4wd.  

 

I wonder what the % is of locker equipped 4x4's out of total 4x4 vehicles.

[Mc2guy]

"2wd at best"????  Even with a transfer case and a front axle system?  An NV is hardly a "2wd" after 4x4 conversion.  More limited than a locker equipped vehicle, yes.  But still 4wd.  

 

I wonder what the % is of locker equipped 4x4's out of total 4x4 vehicles.

What he means is that with an open differential on the front and back, it is possible to spin a wheel on each axle if on a slippery or loose surface.  Thus, you will only effectively have two wheels turning (and possibly spinning) due to the open (unlocked) nature of the differentials.  This is still better than the stock van, which with an open differential is essentially a one wheel drive.

 

I would wager most stock 4wd vehicles do not have a locker, although some offer it as an option... and of course most off roaders put one on given the significant advantage they offer.

[Tatunka]

What he means is that with an open differential on the front and back, it is possible to spin a wheel on each axle if on a slippery or loose surface.  Thus, you will only effectively have two wheels turning (and possibly spinning) due to the open (unlocked) nature of the differentials.  This is still better than the stock van, which with an open differential is essentially a one wheel drive.

 

I would wager most stock 4wd vehicles do not have a locker, although some offer it as an option... and of course most off roaders put one on given the significant advantage they offer.

 

This has some truth but you are forgeting about the Electronic Limited Slip (ELS) that our Traction Control system provides for us.  If you don't think it exists take your van to the side of a road where the shoulder is gravel, stop with one wheel on pavement and the other on gravel, then hammer the skinny pedal to try and break loose the tires. Try it with Vehicle Stability off (it won't cut the fuel) and its better. So, yes the van does have an open diff front and rear. But at least you can spin three wheels instead of two. In my experience the VSC needs to be off to provide the highest level of traction.

 

Also the AAM rear axle that is put under the NV is a NV specific part, I was hoping at least one other manufacturer would share it, but no.

But the IFS 9.25 is shared by GM? or Dodge and AAM does make a E-locker, Limited Slip, and one with both. :)

 

I wonder if this would work?

Edited August 31, 2014 by Tatunka

[Decades]

While my transmission was being worked on I asked Pat at Level 10 if it was feasible to replace the TCM from a Titan with high and low range so I might have been able to use a two speed transfer case.  I was hoping that it was in the TCM programming to modify the output of the speed sensor signal on the output.  He did not think that would work since the TCM communicated with the ECU and the ABS/ESC module- according to what Tatunka has said before, the problem is the disagreement between the speed sensor on the output of the transmission and the individual wheel speed sensors, right? 

     I'm curious if while in 4WD/LOW only if the wheel speed can be emulated based on the output of the vehicle speed sensor so the computers never knew that the gearing had changed and didn't ever know the wheels were spinning.  This would effectively eliminate the help the traction control provides on the rear with an open diff, but I read this week that the new Titan XD is going to have a 9.25 in the front and I believe an AAM rear with a Nissan-specific E-locker (I'll link the article if I can find it again, the press release on "The Auto Channel" gives the size of the rear as a 13")  Is this the same size as the NV?

The front diff on the Quigley is already locked electronically, right?  Curious about the AAM one that was mentioned above if that was intended to replace the Quigley-supplied one.

[Mc2guy]

While my transmission was being worked on I asked Pat at Level 10 if it was feasible to replace the TCM from a Titan with high and low range so I might have been able to use a two speed transfer case.  I was hoping that it was in the TCM programming to modify the output of the speed sensor signal on the output.  He did not think that would work since the TCM communicated with the ECU and the ABS/ESC module- according to what Tatunka has said before, the problem is the disagreement between the speed sensor on the output of the transmission and the individual wheel speed sensors, right? 

     I'm curious if while in 4WD/LOW only if the wheel speed can be emulated based on the output of the vehicle speed sensor so the computers never knew that the gearing had changed and didn't ever know the wheels were spinning.  This would effectively eliminate the help the traction control provides on the rear with an open diff, but I read this week that the new Titan XD is going to have a 9.25 in the front and I believe an AAM rear with a Nissan-specific E-locker (I'll link the article if I can find it again, the press release on "The Auto Channel" gives the size of the rear as a 13")  Is this the same size as the NV?

The front diff on the Quigley is already locked electronically, right?  Curious about the AAM one that was mentioned above if that was intended to replace the Quigley-supplied one.

 

I read the same thing regarding the AAM rear axle.  Nissan has also stated that the new Titan XD axle was "from an existing Nissan commercial vehicle" which leads me to believe they have sourced the NV's axle for the new Titan.  Again, not confirmed, but this would suggest any locker on the new Titan would work "mechanically at least" with the NV.

 

I have no plans to upgrade to 4WD as I don't off road with my van, however, the option of a locking diff on the rear would definitely appeal to me as that alone will allow you to get out of most situations even without 4WD (boat ramps, snowy driveway, etc).  In fact, other than mud bogging, a locked rear axle will get you through 99% (not all) of what most off-roaders face, IMO.  I am aware that the traction control module will apply some brake force to a spinning rear wheel, but it is significantly limited as the the amount of torque that can be redirected using that method.  It is quite easy to spin up the inside rear wheel in a turn on wet pavement, which tells me what I need to know about the efficacy of the exist system

[Decades]

Found the article-

www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/pickup/1501_2016_nissan_titan_xd_first_look/

A little bit of conflicting information on this article, says the rear axle is from a Dodge Power Wagon and is a 10.5".

[dented]

If I could purchase the rear end of a Dodge Power wagon, and have it work with the wheel sensors the Nissan wants, I would do it in an INSTANT. 

I miss my lockers in my Jeep and the Ford Econoline I sold to buy the NV. 

Don't get me wrong, I love the NV. It's quiet, comfortable, powerful, and roomy. It hasn't left us stranded on any road trips (ahem, Ford) and who can argue with riding your motorcycle right into the van. 

But when I see sand covering a desert road, I stop and see if I can shovel it out of the way first because this van STINKS in sand. I have thrown more rocks and dug more holes with the NV than the E350 ever did. It had a limited slip rear that was far more useful than I expected it would be. 

True what MC2guy said. I have had vehicles wobbling on two opposite corners before, with open diffs. You start stacking rocks, and whatever else you can find. But I don't want to have to do that all the time. Turning the "traction control" off has had little effect for us. We drive the van off road almost every weekend that we drive it. I also have two large traction mats for last ditch efforts. 

I have had almost no success getting a winch mounted yet, but I hold out hope. 

If I could get a locking rear diff, desert trips would be much more comfortable. Worth every penny. 

[Tatunka]

From the information that I have gathered:

 

The rear axle on the NV (13" AAM Nissan Specific Unit) is the same as the Titan XD (although with 6 lug instead of 8, so different axle shafts?). So the possibility is there that the Nissan factory locker will work, also there will be much more aftermarket interest in the Titan so the possibility that a locker will emerge for this axle is high.

 

The front axle that Quigley and Advanced uses is a 9.25 IFS AAM axle is used by many different manufacturers and has the ability to have an LSD, eLocker, or LSD/eLocker.

 

Also Advanced 4wd has a work around for the 4lo option, not sure what it is but they are not bound by what Nissan wants, like Quigley.

 

And yes, turn your wheel and hit the skinny and you will spin. It's because the computer thinks are turning, therefore the sensors will let the tire spin more than if you have your steering wheel straight.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Tatunka

[Jon Nelson]

Tatunka -

 

The axle you mention is not the info I dug up before we purchased our '13 NV.  But on this Sunday am I can't find it in my past emails and bookmarks.  When parked next to a Titan the rear axles look much different.  But, I'm not sure if the comparison truck was an XD model.

 

Also, Advanced has NOT come up with a work around for the 4Low speed sensor problem.  Unless you think dealing with it is a work around. We have an early '14 Advanced conversion on a '13 Nissan NV3500.  I can make it go into limp mode all day in 4Low.  I am now also able to drive differently and rarely get caught in limp mode.  But it does require driving diligence not to go into limp mode.  Quigley puts a bracket underneath to keep the driver from shifting into 4Low.  Advanced just hopes you never encounter the problem.  After nearly a year of owning an Advanced conversion I would much rather have 4Low and work around the issue.  Not ideal, but I've been places 4Hi would have never got me.  I'd much rather have 4Low and learn to work around it.

[Tatunka]

Good to know Jon, I have not yet run into someone that has an Advanced 4wd unit. The Quigly blocker bracket is easily removable on the transfer case, so maybe I'll remove it and see what happens. Could you detail how you have been able to lessen the limp mode? and what does the truck do in limp mode? and how do you reset it?

 

As far as the axle goes, there is hardly any info out on the rear axle. The best information I have gotten is from Nissan's customer line, but she said it was a patented design that Nissan has not made public yet.

 

The 2016 Titan XD has not been released yet, but from the pictures from the debut the rear end looks the same as the NV.

 

Here is the picture from Nissan's website

 

 

That looks excatly like my rear axle, except mine is a little rustier.

 

And this is from the Titan press release:

 

To maximize stability, handling and ride comfort, TITAN XD uses a new heavy-duty, highly stable suspension design. The double-wishbone with stabilizer bar front suspension is reinforced and tuned for hard use and the rigid rear axle suspension utilizes hefty leaf springs and leaf bushings, along with twin-tube shock absorbers. The axle is a large purpose-built American Axle Manufacturing design. The rear differential measures 13.0 inches with 3.5-inch axle tubes, while the front differential (4x4 models) measures 9.25 inches. Also available is an Electronic Locking Rear Differential.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Tatunka

[Jon Nelson]

Tatunka

 

As far as limp mode here is my latest evolving description / instructions:

 

1) Limp mode is a reality in 4Low.  If someone says they don't have an issue then they haven’t driven the truck.  I can make it happen on a surface street.

 

2) I have only had it go into limp mode in 4Low and with the trans shifter in Manual 1

 

3) 4Low and manual 1 is like an old time granny gear.  It’s SLOOOW.  Need to go faster? Shift to Manual 2.  But sometimes I go down steep hills or up hills that I want to be in Manual 1. Or crawl around rocks and I want the slow granny gear.  As soon as you go into 4Low and Manual 1 be prepared for limp mode.

 

4) For me, as far as I can tell (and I’ve probably been in limp mode about 50 times) here’s when it goes into limp mode:  Whenever I get impatient.   Going down a hill and I accelerate to over rev in 4Low Manual 1, and then let off the gas, the revs seems to catch up with the sensors and limp mode engages.   Going up a hill in 4Low Manual 1 and I over rev and then let off the gas, limp mode.  I don’t think it necessarily the over rev but it’s when the deceleration happens.

 

5) When it goes into limp mode you loose power.  In the middle of a mud pit?  You’ll loose all power.   Going through a snow bank and gun it and then let off the gas?  You'll loose power.  How to get power back…. shift the transmission gear shift lever to neutral and back to D.  You’ll have power.  The engine light will come on but you’ll have power.  Now, as soon as you shift to neutral from manual 1 and then back to drive you will now be in Manual 4 but you’ll have power.   When I go through tricky spots where loss of power might really be an issue I keep my right hand available to shift to neutral and back to drive.  (Again, I’m talking about the Nissan transmission shifter and NOT talking about the 4x4 shifter on the floor.  You can leave that in 4Low.)

 

6) It’s a nuisance.  But I’d much rather have 4Low than not have it.  4Low is the second reason we went with Advance over Quigley.   And since it only seems to happen in Manual 1, I use Manual 1 less often.  But I do find that 4low Manual 1 is very useful for crawling around rocks.  Just don’t hit the gas or at least don’t pump the gas.

 

7) I use 4Low Manual 2 much more.  In fact lately I often keep it in Manual 3 or Manual 4 when in 4low and just let the transmission shift around where it wants to be.

 

8) After you shift to neutral and back to drive again and are out of the tight spot reach over to the ScanGuage and clear the codes.  I do the clear all the time as I’m moving.  No need to stop or shift the transmission into a special place in order to clear.  Note: the scan gauge doesn’t help the vehicle stay out of limp mode it only permits you to reset the code.

 

There.  I hope that helps.

[Tatunka]

Thanks for the info!

[Dep4b]

I take my family to Portsmouth Island, part of the core banks off of the Carolinas. There is often soft sand, and I am worried about not having 4lo in NV. In sand, w 4lo, I often keep it in second in order to not spin the wheels too much, at least in my Jeep.

 

Would love to hear someone has used quigley version in sand...

[peter_fazio]

  HI All,

 

  I have a 2013 NV3500 Passenger and I am interested in getting a Quigley conversion.  I have been to the Quigley factory, gotten a tour and talked at length to the Nissan sales rep.  I live 30 minutes from Quigley.  When I was there, we discussed the addition of diff lockers to the axles.  For the rear, as of Dec 2014, Quigley was unaware of any locker for the rear diff.  When I asked about getting an e-locker or air locker for the 9.25 AAM front diff, the rep was pretty hesitant about installing one in the front steer axle.  I got the feeling that they did not really want to consider a locker for the front diff.  I am still "up in the air" about deciding on doing the conversion due to lack of front or rear lockers and the single speed transfer case.  Now, it's mentioned here that the transfer case that Quigley puts in the NV is really a 2 speed box but with the Lo-range blocked out by a bracket.  The Nissan rep never mentioned this to me during any of our conversations.  If this is really the case, and the bracket could be removed after the "official" conversion, then the NV would have the ability to have Lo-range, but with the possibility of going into limp mode due to a fault code.  Can any of the Quigley converted NV owners confirm that this is really the case?  If so, does anybody know what the Lo-range ratio is ?  This may push me over the edge to get the conversion done this summer if I could have a 2 speed case and a front diff e-locker.

 

                                                                            Pete Fazio

[Bates]

There evidently away around low range limp mode as the guy who does conversions in Utah offers a low mode with his conversion.  His conversion was less professional looking than the quigley one though(underneath anyways).

 

I've got no clue about the diff lockers, no-one has ever asked here.

[Tatunka]

Diff locks- Prior to the introduction of the New Nissan Titan, there were no other vehicles that were equipt with the AAM rear diff that the NV has. It was a unique rear diff so there was no interest in an aftermarket locker at that time, especially with the ELSD/traction control. Now with the new Titan using the same rear diff (and now with a factory rear locker) as the NV, I think there will be more aftermarket interest in the future. I think the reason they were so hesitent to put a front locker in is the drivability issues involved when it is engaged.

 

It was a quigley employee that informed me that it was a two speed case with the low disabled. As far as the ratio, I don't know.