whoinow Posted February 27, 2023 My van has ~94k miles and I have a Victron Isolated Orion 12|12 30 and whenever it kicks on to charge, the voltage at the battery starter drops to below 12v and the charger stops. From the reading of this forum, the stock 130A alternator should be sufficient. Is the alternator going bad or what else could it be? Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crusty Posted February 27, 2023 You do have the engine running, right? A 30A load should not be pulling the voltage below 12V. Where are you measuring the voltage at? Is it the Victron data stream showing the drop below 12V? Do you have a meter on the battery? If you have a poor electrical connection going into the DC-DC that can cause the voltage to drop under load (under load is the important part here). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whoinow Posted February 27, 2023 21 minutes ago, crusty said: You do have the engine running, right? A 30A load should not be pulling the voltage below 12V. Where are you measuring the voltage at? Is it the Victron data stream showing the drop below 12V? Do you have a meter on the battery? If you have a poor electrical connection going into the DC-DC that can cause the voltage to drop under load (under load is the important part here). Yes the engine is running (the Orion is only on when the vehicle is running). The voltage was measured at the starter battery as I mentioned. Victron does show the voltage drop. If it was a voltage drop just at the Orion, I would assume some resistance over the wire from the power source to the Orion (wire size, connector, bad connection, etc), but I am using the positive wire that was for the rear inverter which is 7-8awg. That being said, the voltage drop is at the starter battery, so the whole vehicle voltage is dropping. Does the 5.6L have a smart alternator? I have ready those can drop to 12.5-13.5v (I am not sure of the conditions for this). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crusty Posted February 28, 2023 I would also get the battery tested. A 30A draw shouldn't pull the battery below 12V. I know my '21 does NOT have a smart charging system. Some parts stores will load test the battery and charging system on a running car. 1 Local Apparent Friday reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Local Apparent Friday Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Agree with Crusty. Test your start battery, test your alternator, use a DMM to measure resistance on all your connections, report back. Also curious...has this setup performed as designed in the past and is now causing issues, or is this a new install? From the 12/12-30 manual re:smart alts: "Suitable for use in vehicles with a smart alternator (Euro 5 and Euro 6 engines) The built-in engine shutdown detection will stop the converter when the engine is not running. This prevents unwanted discharge of the starter battery (see manual for details)." Also of note, if you end up needing to replace alternator, HO versions exist in the $2-300 range. Edited February 28, 2023 by Local Apparent Friday Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whoinow Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Local Apparent Friday said: Agree with Crusty. Test your start battery, test your alternator, use a DMM to measure resistance on all your connections, report back. Also curious...has this setup performed as designed in the past and is now causing issues, or is this a new install? From the 12/12-30 manual re:smart alts: "Suitable for use in vehicles with a smart alternator (Euro 5 and Euro 6 engines) The built-in engine shutdown detection will stop the converter when the engine is not running. This prevents unwanted discharge of the starter battery (see manual for details)." Also of note, if you end up needing to replace alternator, HO versions exist in the $2-300 range. This is a new install and I just started monitoring the Orion. I can measure the resistance at the Orion, but its not just a voltage drop at the Orion (of course the Orion sees it) but the system is dropping as I am measuring at the battery. While the drop in voltage happens, the RPM of the motor also seems to dip, and adding some throttle up to 1-3k RPM doesn't seem to change the voltage either. I will get my alternator tested. The over-night resting voltage of the battery is 12.34v, and this is after driving it all weekend. If I am reading the date sticker on the battery, it looks like 10/2020 and even though its a "84month" Nissan branded battery I don't believe it, specially with the resting voltage. I think I am just going to replace it. Also of note, I 3D printed a fan shroud for the Orion which houses 3x 30mm fans, as I know the Orion will thermal throttle (or even in some cases, fail completely) if not cooled properly. Lastly, the Orion is on a 40A relay (I think, can't find a data sheet for the Hella/Nissan model 25230-9F915), the standard 60A fuse, and the wiring from the rear inverter (removed) so it only has power when the van is running. I know the Orion has voltage sense, but this way the fans are only on when the engine is running as well (they are noisy and in the garage right below the bed). Edited February 28, 2023 by whoinow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whoinow Posted February 28, 2023 I replaced the battery since it was old anyway and cheap enough at Costco, same behavior. I had the alternator tested at autozone and battery/alternator passed as good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whoinow Posted February 28, 2023 Ok, so I lowered the low voltage cutoff of the Orion to 11.7v since it dips down there for a 'bit when starting up but when it is on at full tilt, the voltage at the Orion is steady at ~12.5v, but at the starter battery its still ~14v. So there is some decent voltage drop on the wire from the fuse/relay box to the Orion in the back. I checked the body ground for the input of the Orion and that is nice and tight. I bypassed the relay and no voltage drop difference, so that is not where resistance is coming from. So I guess it is what it is. I might consider replacing it with the 18A version as 60w of heat somewhere on the line (most of it is buried at this point, so hard to tell where exactly) from the front to the back is a little alarming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Local Apparent Friday Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) The factory inverter has some mechanism that limits the output when the vehicle is in drive vs park. I do not know if this is done in the inverter itself, or somewhere upstream. Are you sure you're getting the full throughput to the orion? This may be a non-issue since you removed the inverter, I am not sure. But I would try connecting directly to the battery and bypassing everything else to see if you get the same results. If you do, I would be exchanging the orion at that point. Sorry I'm not much help...dealing with a skipped timing chain on the race bike rn. Edited March 1, 2023 by Local Apparent Friday Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whoinow Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Local Apparent Friday said: The factory inverter has some mechanism that limits the output when the vehicle is in drive vs park. I do not know if this is done in the inverter itself, or somewhere upstream. Are you sure you're getting the full throughput to the orion? This may be a non-issue since you removed the inverter, I am not sure. But I would try connecting directly to the battery and bypassing everything else to see if you get the same results. If you do, I would be exchanging the orion at that point. Sorry I'm not much help...dealing with a skipped timing chain on the race bike rn. I will give that a shot. Right now the lower voltage limit seems to be working. Thanks for the help, much appreciated. Edited March 1, 2023 by whoinow 1 Local Apparent Friday reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
