Keystone Passport 3320BH

[flips805]

Hi All,

 

I bought my 3500SL last summer and absolutely love it. My wife and I are now thinking about getting a travel trailer and really dig the keystone 3320BH. From the keystone web site it seems like fully loaded it will be close to the max of NV tow ratings but my bigger concern is the length. Overall length is 36'.

 

I use to tow a weekend warrior fs2300 so I'm not new to towing. The 10' difference in length does worry me though.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thank you!

[andy_george]

We also have a NVP SL, and just bought a used 2006 Keystone 30BHS. It's a little shorter, with a 30' box, 33' overall. We PLAN to head from Michigan to Florida this weekend, but that is contingent on whether or not 2 of our kids with fevers start feeling good again:(

 

I don't plan on it being too long, but I'd gladly give you trip notes if we are lucky enough to blast off. I have some initial impressions in a topic I started in the general discussions "Why the NV deserves the Cummins Diesel".

 

My brother also has an old airstream, which I've never pulled with my van though. It's total length is right about 36', but it's also around 8600lbs. It feels huge behind a pickup, for sure, but it's never seemed to be "too much" or stopped him from going anywhere.....

 

-Andy

[Chris_CommercialManager]

weight distributing hitch and brake controller and you'll be fine.  Out of curiosity, why do you reference length of the trailer.  I have guys that for better or worse move REAL heavy loads with their NV's while having thousands of pounds inside as well.  I have one guy specifically that pulls a 11000 pound bobcat.  I of course can't advise that but I do know he does it.

[RICK]

The length comes into play when navigating city streets and turns. possibly at camp grounds when trying to pull into a tight spot. 

 

It also depends on the the length from the hitch to the axle and the overhang behind the axle to bumper of the trailer. 

 

I have 2 work trailers and although not as long as yours, the overhang is the factor when going in and out of driveways, especially if the driveway has any kind of slope/ ramp.  

 

Rick.

[RICK]

weight distributing hitch and brake controller and you'll be fine.  Out of curiosity, why do you reference length of the trailer.  I have guys that for better or worse move REAL heavy loads with their NV's while having thousands of pounds inside as well.  I have one guy specifically that pulls a 11000 pound bobcat.  I of course can't advise that but I do know he does it.#

keep in mind although the nv is rated at 9500 # towing with the v8, there is also a gross combined vehicle weight rating of i believe 16,000# 

 

a 3500 high roof weighs in at 6003# empty. so any added occupants and cargo will take away from the towing capacity. of course if they ever get pulled over by law enforcement, not only will they get a huge ticket, but they will have to get the load lightened before they will be allowed to move. might even get impounded. 

 

last year i got a 2750.00 ticket while towing a trailer and i wasn't even over weight. and that was with a 25% discount for not fighting it the ticket. i was 1 of 8 in court that day with the identical ticket, same cop. Plus all were contractors, we stand out. 

 

Rick. 

[flips805]

Thanks for your replies Andy and Chris.

 

Sorry about the lil ones Andy. I hope they get to feeling better and that you guys get to go on your trip.

 

Chris, I agree with the need for a good WDH and brake control. I still have a lot to learn about towing but one thing I do know is that the weight and length of a trailer play a factor on overall towing experience and safety. The longer the trailer the bigger the sail which increases the potential for trailer sway. A tow vehicle with a certain wheel base should only tow a trailer within a certain length (although I havent found that magic number combination yet).

 

Thanks again for your input :)

[flips805]

bummer about the ticket Rick. I have the NVP so my towing capacity is only 8700. GCWV is also lower since I have a ton of seats. I do plan on removing as many seats as I can when I towing to help out a lil.

[Mc2guy]

I would add that where you plan to travel may influence your decision on trailer weight and length.  If you have any intention of going west (I don't know your location) and towing over the Rockies or at altitude, I'd reconsider that weight.  Generally I like a 10% reserve capacity on my max trailer weight, more if you are towing at altitude or over long grades.  If, however, you are in the flats or not towing long distances, then bumping up against the GCWR is not a problem, IMO.

 

Keep in mind that the GCWR is a number that the engineers have designed the vehicle to reliable handle.  It is not a guarantee of performance at that number, nor does it mean you can't damage your vehicle if driven incorrectly.  The max weight the 3320BH is rated for is 8,000#.  That gives you about #1,300 lbs for people, fuel, and luggage in the NV, MAXIMUM assuming your trailer is at max weight, which they usually are once you put water and gear in them.  Again, if you are out west, or towing in mountains, ideally, you would leave some safety margin, but aren't legally required to.

[flips805]

Thanks for your comments and advice MC2. We're Southern California and for the most part travel on flat grounds. The most challenging towing conditions I've encountered are the winds of Mohave desert. There's the potential to go up and down a 5 mile 6% grade , grapevine grade, but I've always avoided it.

 

Hate to have this guys experience...

[Chris_CommercialManager]

keep in mind although the nv is rated at 9500 # towing with the v8, there is also a gross combined vehicle weight rating of i believe 16,000# 

 

a 3500 high roof weighs in at 6003# empty. so any added occupants and cargo will take away from the towing capacity. of course if they ever get pulled over by law enforcement, not only will they get a huge ticket, but they will have to get the load lightened before they will be allowed to move. might even get impounded. 

 

last year i got a 2750.00 ticket while towing a trailer and i wasn't even over weight. and that was with a 25% discount for not fighting it the ticket. i was 1 of 8 in court that day with the identical ticket, same cop. Plus all were contractors, we stand out. 

 

Rick. 

 

oh man, I've never even heard of someone getting a ticket like that before.  Maybe the police in illinois are not strict on that.

[RICK]

the ticket was in santa monica, but culver city and beverly hills all write the same tickets as they were all trained by the culver city commercial enforcement cop. they are small cities with big expenses. i understand they generate over 1 million dollars annually just with these tickets and 1 cop per city working commercial enforcement. of course the city only gets a portion of the total. 

 

the ticket is 1 thing, but the penalty added to the ticket is x4 the ticket. so a 600. ticket plus the 4x penalty = 2400.00 plus the cort cost of 170.00 came out to 2570.00. without the discount it would have been 900.00 x4 = 3600.00 plus 170. 3770.00 

 

based on the written law, it would be almost impossible to beat it in court and they do show up for this. 

 

Rick. 

[andy_george]

So Rick, if you don't mind me asking, if you weren't overweight, what was the huge ticket for? Those prices are insane high.....:(

 

Update on the towing..... We left Michigan Saturday evening, we are currently just south of Atlanta, and should reach our destination in central Florida this afternoon.

 

The NV is doing awesome. I had spoken earlier about gas vs. diesel, and how the lack of torque of the 5.6 compared to the Cummins was a little disappointing, etc. I throw that all out the window. Granted, we aren't pulling a huge load, but I'd say a 7,000lbs, 33ft. Travel trailer is the higher end of what the private-use passenger vans usually tug around.

 

It's got plenty of grunt, stability, and brakes to make this trip super easy, even up over the Mt. Eagle pass in Tennessee. Unless you have a strong head-wind (which we had a lot of so far:(. It pulls in 5th most of the time. It drops to 4th quite a bit, but that's only like a 600rpm jump. And on the longest, steepest grades it asks for 3rd gear, but then it's easily holding 60mph and still only spinning under 4000rpms.

 

I've been happiest staying out of the cruise control in the hills, and manually clicking into 4th and holding it there so it doesn't jump between 4th and 5th on grades.

 

We have the most challenging part of the trip behind us, and I'm super happy with how it's towing with it's low-tech but ultra reliable gas powered hunk. Sure a diesel would be nice, but for the few times the extra torque would be appreciated, a gas motor is still ideal for 95% of the driving we do..... Very light loads, short trips, errands, etc. 9000 miles in, and we still can't imagine anything, at any price, meeting our needs better.

[andy_george]

Oh, and our mileage has been between 7 and 8 mpg, mainly dependant on the headwind. I'm satisfied with that....

[flips805]

Thanks for the towing report Andy! Glad your fam's able to go on the trip. Hopefully the lil ones are feeling better.

 

I'm 99% sure I'm going to pull the trigger on the 3320BH. There's 2 coming in to a dealership close by and I cant wait to check it out.

 

Thanks again for everyone's comments and advice. Stay tuned....

[flips805]

Hi Andy,

 

I've been meaning to ask. What WD hitch do you have and what pick up was your brother using to pull is 36 footer?

 

Thank you!

[Tatunka]

I would totally be comfortable towing 10-11,000 with this van, I know it's not legal, but I would be comfortable with it. I have had other vehicles that have had the wag the dog feeling just getting close to the "max tow rating". I have towed my Outback 301BQ (7000 empty, 8540 currently) over 9000 miles with no problems as far as towing, I use an "Equalizer" hitch setup and have been very happy with the performance of this truck. Even with larger tires this truck does great.

 

My only advice is make sure you are comfortable with the capacity ratings of the trailer, my Outback's cargo rating is 2000lbs (so max GVWR is 9000lbs, the 3320 looks to be 8000) and I know when we go on a two week trip it is at or a little above 9000lbs. So make sure you know what you are going to put in your trailer so that you don't run out of capacity. Another this to remember is car manufacturers are usually always going to put their tow/GVW ratings on the conservative side and they overbuild a little to protect their warranty, where as trailer manufacturers build the cheapest way possible to get you through that year warranty, and after that they could care less. So I would be okay with going over the ratings on the vehicle, but I get very leery when I get close to the trailers GVWR even though I do it.

[andy_george]

Flips805,

We just use the standard WD hitch, with the straight style spring bars. Maybe there are other styles or variances I'm not aware of?

 

We hook them to an AirSafe air bag hitch, but that's only for comfort and to take the shock off the puller and trailer, not really for safety I'd say.

 

We've pulled the big airstream with everything from our modded school bus, to our Freighliner Sportchassis, to Ford HD diesels. The lightest vehicle to pull it was a 2004 Ford Econoline 350. I didn't drive it, but I know that was through some mountainous freeways, and my oldest brother ( his van) didn't enjoy it much. But his van is also shorter and lighter than the NV, has the ancient 5.4l motor, 4 speed tranny, no tranny cooler, and based off a platform from the 80's. So it's a real hard comparison to make I'd think.

 

I'll pull the airstream with the NV at some point, but maybe not for a year or two. I forget the exact weight of the Airstream, but like Tatunka said, most trailers these days are built as light as possible, whereas a mid 80's Airstream is an absolute pig when it comes to weight.

[flips805]

Thanks for chiming in Tatunka and Andy.

 

Well....I ordered the trailer. Should be here 6-8 weeks :) Cant wait to take it out and give my first towing report.

 

Tatunka, I used to pull my weekend warrior with my nissan titan equiped with the equalizer and it towed great.This time around I plan on getting the propride. Its a ton more expensive but I'm so paranoid with trailer sway that it will be worth it to me. To make a long story short I almost flipped the weekend warrior prior to getting the equalizer.

 

Thanks again for all the comments/advice.

[Tatunka]

Trailer sway can get out of control fast, it's not something to take lightly. Now the video above shows the dangers of a serious crosswind, but sway is a whole other animal.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfEt4Ja111w

 

Let us know how you like your new setup and congradulations on the new purchase!

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

I pull a Passport 32RE with almost identical spec's  to that 3320BH, just a foot shorter.

I can tell you the length will not be an issue as along as you are comfortable towing. I have no trouble getting our camper into camping sites even at tighter state parks.

I'm not sure I would spend the cash on a pro-pride.  I'm a  little leery of adding that much extra equipment / steel to the hitch weight. That camper will be close to the max rated 1000 pounds tongue weight once you have propane cans filled and gear on-board. I know ours is 960 / 970 lbs loaded to camp also with just the spring bars on the camper and the draw bar is another 30lbs (I use a Reese dual cam / straight line). I also think they are, front all accounts I have seen - never used one - kinda a PITA to deal with if you get out of position / not able to back straight in to hook up or get off-camber a bit.

I've only got about 3 or 4 K  miles of dragging our camper around - much of it across the mountains of PA  -  truck traffic, wind and some curvy roads and I have never felt significant sway. Occasionally get a little "push", but it settles right out, not that progressively worse tail wagging the dog thing.

I would also advise to get a decent brake controller. Don't use some cheap time-based unit. I made the mistake of letting our RV dealer install one as part of the setup package deal and I hated it. after the second short trip I tossed it out and put in a Prodigy P2. Now, I never readjust the controller and barely feel the trailer brakes at all. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by Heavy Metal Doctor

[andy_george]

I've pulled trailers hundreds of times, and I don't fully understand the sway issue. Other than wind causing brief, minimal sway, isn't it basically a non-issue unless a trailer is mis-loaded and actually heavier in the rear than the front. Therefore pulling up on the tow vehicle?

 

I may be totally wrong, that's just been my understanding....

[NoEffinMini4Me]

I heard to open the right rear and the left front window just slightly to break the suction from a passing semi truck trailer. Learned that

trick from the RV dealer yesterday.

There is a suction when encountering a large vehicle on the highway that causes the trailer to sway a little.

 

 

[flips805]

Holy Smokes! NoEffinMini4me...dry tongue weight of that thing is 860lbs. I feel silly for being too concerned over weights. Have you gotten actual weights when you're all loaded up?

 

BTW, the keystone passport didn't work out. My dealing with RVwholesalers went sour and I backed out. Not sure if I'm going to lose my deposit but I feel good about not continuing with them.

 

I'm back on the hunt. Trying to find a Heartland Wilderness 3250BS but after seeing NoMini's set up I might go for the Heartland Northtrail 33bkss. Identical floor plan as the Wilderness but Northtrail has slightly better features.

Edited March 21, 2015 by flips805

[flips805]

Andy, I will admit that when I had severe sway it was mostly because of the way I loaded the bikes in the toy hauler. Once I got that dialed in towing was a lot better. However, there was still a significant improvement when I switched to the equalizer hitch. I can't say I can technically explain the reason but the same truck, toy hauler, and load had no sway with the equalizer. Even when getting passed big trucks or experiencing heavy wind.

Edited March 21, 2015 by flips805

[NoEffinMini4Me]

I have done only a short haul with this rig so far. Backing up is a real pain.

Have not got the weight , nor have I had it loaded up yet. It barely squatted when dropping the trailer tongue on.

The equalizer bars were added. The van had no issue pulling or stopping. There is a Primus IQ trailer brake that I added to the NV.

 

This is a walk through of an older model of my trailer.

 

Mine added the LED light package. Prewire for separate bedroom AC and added Skylight in the kitchen, which makes a huge difference.

The only thing missing that I wished for was the U shaped dinette. There is more storage in the Spree than the passport, so for our large family, this was ideal. Another selling point was the cathedral ceiling. The space feels much larger than the passport or my current Sandpiper.

Edited March 21, 2015 by NoEffinMini4Me