Fred Fauth Posted July 27, 2015 Yeah I'm still mulling over what the way forward is... We know one thing and that is that we want to get the truck even if we don't RV forever. We are hoping to get one "big" trip and a number of "small" trips in each year. My job is such that I earn "comp time" for busy seasons that can be parlayed into vacation time... and next year I will earn 4 weeks a year due to time on the job here... My hope is to get 5 years out of the RV thing - until the kids are getting into later teen years. At least that's my thinking right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vanguy Posted July 29, 2015 Re-read this thread: http://nissannvforum.com/topic/560-hoping-husbands-nv-can-tow-my-dream-rv-pls-help/Pay attention to post 8, 13 & 22 This is not my opinion. This is not the opinion of the little girl who answers the phone a Nissan customer service who has never ridden in a van before. This info comes straight from the Nissan Commercial engineering dept.. 1 Chris_CommercialManager reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris_CommercialManager Posted July 29, 2015 All the necessary hard parts and or software is not available for conversion to my knowledge nor is there a potential procedure for this conversion. Any solution would be speculative at best and would probably require much trial and error at great expense to no avail. 1 Fred Fauth reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ASD Dad Posted July 29, 2015 Re-read this thread: http://nissannvforum.com/topic/560-hoping-husbands-nv-can-tow-my-dream-rv-pls-help/Pay attention to post 8, 13 & 22 This is not my opinion. This is not the opinion of the little girl who answers the phone a Nissan customer service who has never ridden in a van before. This info comes straight from the Nissan Commercial engineering dept.. I am curious, how did you get in touch with Nissan Commercial Engineering? I know with many vehicles it is a numbers game. Take the popular Ford F250. There are many sites where people have gone part number to part number and found ZERO difference in any major components between the F250 and F350. One is simply marketed for a 3/4T market and the other a 1T market. The one main difference was an additional leaf added to the rear pack. Easily added after the fact. To stick with Ford - the F150 Max PAYLOAD package is a totally different frame from the stock F150, even with Max Tow. Max Payload has to be ordered as such so they can put the beefier frame under it. That changed somewhere down the line where all the Max Tow SuperCrews got the bigger frame I think but in the beginning that wasnt the case. You simply couldnt throw some parts at it and get the additional payload capacity. The Payload upgrade then I believe turned out to be E rated tires and some other small bits. I used Ford as an example since they're the #1 seller of trucks and we almost ordered a Max Payload truck in the past. If an engineer at Nissan really said there is no difference other than software logic and a hitch I'd like to see the reference just for grins. Otherwise you'd need a master parts manual and patience long enough to go part to part between a tow vs. non tow... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vanguy Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Keep in mind that software has nothing to do with towing capacities. Software nor computer hardware can lift or pull a load.Critical components are suspension & brakes, and motor hp, and hitch capacities. I did not say a NV2500 has the same towing capacities as a NV3500. My post in the above referenced thread said you would get the max listed towing capacity FOR YOUR MODEL if you have the appropriate hitch. If you have a NV3500 with a tow pkg: the engine, suspension, brakes are no different than an NV3500 without the tow pkg.The tow pkg gives you larger mirrors, an upgraded hitch & the tow switch which creates different shift points in the tranny. The hitch is the only component that has any bearing on load capacity. I am curious, how did you get in touch with Nissan Commercial Engineering? Called them on the phone. Asked a technical question the customer service rep could not answer, they connected me to the engineering dept. Edited July 30, 2015 by vanguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ASD Dad Posted July 30, 2015 Keep in mind that software has nothing to do with towing capacities. Software nor computer hardware can lift or pull a load.Critical components are suspension & brakes, and motor hp, and hitch capacities. I did not say a NV2500 has the same towing capacities as a NV3500. My post in the above referenced thread said you would get the max listed towing capacity FOR YOUR MODEL if you have the appropriate hitch. If you have a NV3500 with a tow pkg: the engine, suspension, brakes are no different than an NV3500 without the tow pkg.The tow pkg gives you larger mirrors, an upgraded hitch & the tow switch which creates different shift points in the tranny. The hitch is the only component that has any bearing on load capacity. Called them on the phone. Asked a technical question the customer service rep could not answer, they connected me to the engineering dept. I never said software had any bearing on load carrying capacity, I simply asked if the Tow Package was simply a hitch and software logic for the transmission. The second part answers my question, there are no structural differences between a 3500 tow vs. non-tow that are not user replaceable - namely a heavy duty hitch. I'm sure you can buy the tow mirrors if you really wanted them, I did for my Tundra for only $350 from the dealer. There are add on options as well from the aftermarket. The shifting can be handled by the driver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ASD Dad Posted July 30, 2015 Yeah I'm still mulling over what the way forward is... We know one thing and that is that we want to get the truck even if we don't RV forever. We are hoping to get one "big" trip and a number of "small" trips in each year. My job is such that I earn "comp time" for busy seasons that can be parlayed into vacation time... and next year I will earn 4 weeks a year due to time on the job here... My hope is to get 5 years out of the RV thing - until the kids are getting into later teen years. At least that's my thinking right now. Fred - according to vanguy and Nissan you should be good to go if you install the HD hitch. You can handle shifting duties on your own. Mirrors are not "Required", I know people who tow with normal mirrors, but seeing as this is your first TT and it sounds like it will be a good sized trailer I would highly recommend them. I also recommend visiting sites like RV.net prior to your first tow. There are a lot of very opinionated people there that can come off harsh but if you can read between the lines and filter out the trolls you can get a ton of info from the site. Everything from basic maintenance, to dealer PDI when you pick up the camper, to setup tricks and towing tips are all there to be found. Towing a 7000 pound house on wheels is not something you just want to "wing" and hope for the best! Lastly - I HIGHLY recommend you pick a good Weight Distribution Hitch for your setup. Especially if you will be towing towards the max which it sounds like you will be. There are many to chose from - Reese, Husky, Blue Ox, Equal-I-zer, etc. Will the cheap $300 hitch work that they normally "thrown in the deal"? Yes, but for your camper length you should have two friction bars, not just the one it comes with. The advantages of the better hitches is that most have sway control built in and they can be easier to hook up. Once you pick out your hitch, Read the Manual! I have never encountered a dealer who installed one correctly the first time, they want to set you up and get you out the door. The only dead on way to know if you're correct is to get the whole setup weighed 3 times (that's all detailed on RV.net and other sites) but you can also guess if at the dealership by measuring wheel well heights (again detailed on RV). Basically, take your time and do your research. If you were getting a Pop Up or small hybrid then a lot of things can be masked due to the low weight of the camper. Take your time, read and be patient and you'll have a much more enjoyable first trip. BTW - if you dont like RV.net there are plenty of other camper sites out there. Most all brands have their own forums as well, Forest River has a huge forum site and Forest River actually has techs that help people out as well as official company reps. 1 Fred Fauth reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris_CommercialManager Posted July 30, 2015 In my case...... I am fortunate that I have had direct contact and met in person the senior manager of commercial and fleet engineering at the Mississippi plant, he happened to be there from MI. He is as high as it goes, I have his contact info and what I typed in the previous post on the other thread is the answer that he gave me when I called him. You can take that as 100%. I use him rarely as to not burn that contact with a ton of questions but that towing issue really had me, and my personnel here at the dealership stumped. Like ASD Dad said.....definitely put on a quality weight distributing hitch. 1 Fred Fauth reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ASD Dad Posted July 30, 2015 In my case...... I am fortunate that I have had direct contact and met in person the senior manager of commercial and fleet engineering at the Mississippi plant, he happened to be there from MI. He is as high as it goes, I have his contact info and what I typed in the previous post on the other thread is the answer that he gave me when I called him. You can take that as 100%. I use him rarely as to not burn that contact with a ton of questions but that towing issue really had me, and my personnel here at the dealership stumped. Like ASD Dad said.....definitely put on a quality weight distributing hitch. Chris, you're saying the top dog of the engineering department told you that the Tow Package cant be added. What about it cant be added? The only thing that appears to be not easily installed would be reflashing the ECU for tow mode. I am sure the switch could be added, I am willing to wager there is a unused plug for it behind the panel that is just taped up. That's if the ECU even needs a reflash. Everything else should be easy to bolt on - a hitch and mirrors... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris_CommercialManager Posted July 31, 2015 Chris, you're saying the top dog of the engineering department told you that the Tow Package cant be added. What about it cant be added? The only thing that appears to be not easily installed would be reflashing the ECU for tow mode. I am sure the switch could be added, I am willing to wager there is a unused plug for it behind the panel that is just taped up. That's if the ECU even needs a reflash. Everything else should be easy to bolt on - a hitch and mirrors... Maybe I wasn't clear, he did not say that. I was strictly referencing the conversation we had some time ago about the actual differences between a factory equipped and non equipped van. I have not called him in reference to what it would take to add it. My post above about it not being feasible was my opinion drawn from my years of experience. Not that some shop out there with the appropriate technical people and computers on hand couldn't figure it out, but it simply isn't likely to happen given there would be no market to recoup dollars invested to figure it out. As a commercial manager and mechanic I have nothing to offer or even a suggestion of what it would take, and after having talked to my progressive parts and service manager and drawing blank stares I simply don't think it would be a reasonable undertaking. That is just my .02 though. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radin2son Posted July 31, 2015 Fred, This has nothing to do with towing or warranty and maybe moot if you decided to sell your 2012. Mahu brought up an interesting point about SL only being available in 2015. If your NV says SL on the rear door, I would check to see if there was any previous damage to the door etc. or if it was replaced. Typically the chrome letters are removed/replaced when repairing/repainting. The letters don't really matter, but undisclosed damage could be a problem down the road... or not, if it was cosmetic only and the previous owner couldn't spell. 1 ASD Dad reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ASD Dad Posted July 31, 2015 Fred seems to have gone quiet... You bring up a good point radin2son about prior damage. I suspected damage on my brand new, 6 mile old, van when I got it home. The whole passenger side trim was loose inside - a pillar, handle, kick panel, etc. I looked quite extensively and saw nothing so chalked it up to a lazy line worker on that day. It all just popped back into place with minimal effort. Chris - I didnt know you were a mechanic (not for Nissan). Maybe you're saying things based on your position as a manager but as a fellow wrencher I fail to see the difficulty of bolting on a hitch and adding a set of mirrors! I am sort of curious about that tow button and if the harness is back there. On a Tundra base model and some other trims there are no "info buttons" They will scroll your display for MPG, miles till empty, etc. Well ALL Tundra's have the harness back there and the blank switch plates to mount the buttons. You just simply need to buy the buttons from a dealer, pop out the blank panels and install the buttons and Bingo, you have the higher level trim models Info Button system. I wonder if the same thing could happen on the NV... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris_CommercialManager Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Fred seems to have gone quiet... You bring up a good point radin2son about prior damage. I suspected damage on my brand new, 6 mile old, van when I got it home. The whole passenger side trim was loose inside - a pillar, handle, kick panel, etc. I looked quite extensively and saw nothing so chalked it up to a lazy line worker on that day. It all just popped back into place with minimal effort. Chris - I didnt know you were a mechanic (not for Nissan). Maybe you're saying things based on your position as a manager but as a fellow wrencher I fail to see the difficulty of bolting on a hitch and adding a set of mirrors! I am sort of curious about that tow button and if the harness is back there. On a Tundra base model and some other trims there are no "info buttons" They will scroll your display for MPG, miles till empty, etc. Well ALL Tundra's have the harness back there and the blank switch plates to mount the buttons. You just simply need to buy the buttons from a dealer, pop out the blank panels and install the buttons and Bingo, you have the higher level trim models Info Button system. I wonder if the same thing could happen on the NV... My daily driver (by choice) is a big lifted 1978 Bronco, I have to be if for no other reason than that lol It's not the hitch or mirrors ASD, come on man :) B) It's software and electrical part of it. Maybe I'm guilty of not reading this entire post as thoroughly as I should have but I thought that was the major snafu fred was questioning. For better or worse we just don't have aftermarket following and I don't know that unless some mechanic with facilities comes along that decides to tinker we will ever know many answers to questions like these. :/ Edited July 31, 2015 by Chris_CommercialManager Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ASD Dad Posted July 31, 2015 My buddy is restoring an old Bronco, those are nice rides. A local shop here - Tumblin Automotive - just made national magazines for doing a full Raptor swap into an old Bronco. Chopped the chassis to length to fit and even transplanted the entire Raptor interior to the old Bronco! It turned out pretty incredible. I think the software part can be handled by the driver using the manual mode switch for towing. Not ideal but it works and would work well. Fred just needs a hitch heavy enough to carry the load and be able to see behind him and he should be OK. We definitely dont have much aftermarket unless it's commercial duty stuff. Thankfully the motor has been around over a decade and there are plenty of owners of the Titan/Armadas. Suspension I've found Supersprings, Timbren, etc. for less bounce with heavy loads. I am guessing there are airbags as well. Then again, I dont know if any full size van has much aftermarket besides commercial! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fred Fauth Posted August 1, 2015 Sorry guys for the delay in getting back to everyone. I decided to trade the 2012 I bought and just get a brand new 2015 SL with tow package. We had debated getting a new one, and when I saw the 2012 with the SL package, I was excited because the price was good. Because of the tax structure here in MD, and a slight loss on the trade, I'm losing about $3k for my "mistake". Fortunately it's not bank-breaking for me, as we've been saving for years and are in the good position of not having a mortgage on our house. So I'm counting it an expensive learning experience. Unfortunately, my job has been intense and we have 5 children (two with special needs) - so sometimes money can make up the difference where time is unavailable. My belief is that there's a 75% probability that the 2012 SL w/ C4 hitch could have been retrofitted to work for towing, and even if not, I could have manually handled the shifting. But we're hoping to RV for a long time, and I just couldn't bring myself to not have the vehicle essentially "certified" to tow as much as we need - maybe one day the downhill grade control will come in handy. I've found a few trailers that will work for us and "dry" are around 5,500-6,000 lbs. and provide the sleeping capacity we need. That will put us, fully loaded with people in the van, at least 10% below the max threshold. Before I buy, I'm definitely going to be posting ideas here and joining RV.net. I especially appreciate the advice regarding WD hitches. I have been doing my reading. I don't want to make the same mistake about the trailer as I did with the NV (i.e., buying something that won't really work for us). So I'm going to be extra careful at this point to get the setup we need and ask a lot of questions. Thanks for the advice and help! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fred Fauth Posted August 1, 2015 Fred seems to have gone quiet... You bring up a good point radin2son about prior damage. I suspected damage on my brand new, 6 mile old, van when I got it home. The whole passenger side trim was loose inside - a pillar, handle, kick panel, etc. I looked quite extensively and saw nothing so chalked it up to a lazy line worker on that day. It all just popped back into place with minimal effort. Chris - I didnt know you were a mechanic (not for Nissan). Maybe you're saying things based on your position as a manager but as a fellow wrencher I fail to see the difficulty of bolting on a hitch and adding a set of mirrors! I am sort of curious about that tow button and if the harness is back there. On a Tundra base model and some other trims there are no "info buttons" They will scroll your display for MPG, miles till empty, etc. Well ALL Tundra's have the harness back there and the blank switch plates to mount the buttons. You just simply need to buy the buttons from a dealer, pop out the blank panels and install the buttons and Bingo, you have the higher level trim models Info Button system. I wonder if the same thing could happen on the NV... The 2012 did come in an SL model and I indeed did buy a legit one - it was in great shape. As noted by someone else in the thread, the "tow package" was simply an option in 2012 that they started putting on all V8 models I think in 2014 (or maybe 2013). While I know not 100% reliable, the Carfax for the 2012 was completely clean. Anyhow - I'm just as happy to have the 2015 and the 5yr/100k warranty to go with it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radin2son Posted August 1, 2015 Peace of mind is always a good choice. Now all you have to do is pick the color... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ASD Dad Posted August 1, 2015 Fred, I highly recommend the Blue Ox Sway Pro. Very easy to setup and the ride and control is excellent. Only downsides are twofold. One is the weight, the head and shank weighs about 65 pounds! Second is the powder coating likes to flake off the latches and rust can form. I've had a few hitches and the Ox is by far my favorite. Great sway control, quiet, and no grease exposed for kids! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mahu Posted August 2, 2015 The 2012 did come in an SL model and I indeed did buy a legit one - it was in great shape. As noted by someone else in the thread, the "tow package" was simply an option in 2012 that they started putting on all V8 models I think in 2014 (or maybe 2013). While I know not 100% reliable, the Carfax for the 2012 was completely clean. Anyhow - I'm just as happy to have the 2015 and the 5yr/100k warranty to go with it...Fred, you are absolutely right, the 2012 did in fact come in SL trim. My bad. I found the old 2012 Model description PDF from Nissan.Glad things worked out for you trading the 2012 for a 2015. Keep us posted how you are liking it! We are patiently waiting for our HR model to be delivered from the factory. Should get here in August, fingers crossed. 1 Fred Fauth reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
