Newbie Towing and Tongue Weight Questions

[breto33]

Greetings, I am very grateful that I found this forum.  I am about to close the deal on a 2015 NV 3500 Passenger and want to verify a couple of things first.   I currently drive a 2011 Ford e350 xlt extended the 5.4.  I use the van mainly to hot air balloon with and tow a 4000 pound trailer or have the basket on a Tommy Lift on the back of the van with the remaining equipment in the back of the van with the rear seat removed (500 more lbs).   I used to have a 2013 Ram 1500 using a weight distributing hitch and brake controller that I used to pull our 2013 venture  sport trek 310vjs (guessing 7500 loaded).   The e350 handles the balloon and the balloon trailer ok (really struggles with the balloon trailer in mountains), but I would never hook our travel trailer up to it.   So I really would like to verify that the NV will be capable.  

 

I have read several posts here of people puling similar or bigger travel trailers with no mods other than brake controller and hitch.   I am correct here right?

 

I also would like to know what the tongue weight of the factory hitch is.  I dont have the option of putting a Tommy Lift on the van and will need to build a custom platform for the hitch.  The basket weighs about 800 lbs  and with me standing on it will need to be able to hold 1000 pounds.  There are several people that have made similar platforms for suv's and other vans using standard hitches, i am just looking for anyone that hauls heavy loads in the rear of the NV or has heavy loads on the back, and have you added anything to the rear (bags, etc?) or do the springs handle 1500 pounds ok?

 

Thanks, hopefully that made sense.

 

 

[ASD Dad]

With 1500 pounds you are going to be pushing things.  1000 pounds is over the rated capacity of the tongue weight for the 3500 SL with the tow package.  I believe the factory rating is just under 900 pounds.  

 

It will pull your camper fine with a WDH on the van and camper.  You wont have a ton of power with that weight but it will definitely tow it, see my signature below for my setup.  

 

Do you have the two package?  Do you have access to some scales (CAT, stone, truck scales, etc)?  I'd have the setup in the van as you would be travelling and then go find a scale and weigh the front and rear axles.  It's cheap and quick to do so.  After that look at how much weight you have left to put on your rear axle before maxing out the rating.  The rating is on the sticker in the drivers door jamb.  If you have 1500 pounds left you'll be OK if you have a hitch on the van rated for 1000 of free weight.

 

There are several spring helper options for the NV.  Airbags, Timbrens and SuperSprings all make something for the rear to help with any sag encountered.  NONE of those will increase the axle rating, it will just make the ride better if you are parked on the rear bump stops and I am guessing you will be with 1500 loaded.  

 

Lastly, and you should be OK, make sure your tires are up to the load.  They should be OK at their max cold PSI but check to make sure.

 

Hopefully others will chime in.  There are guys on here towing more weight than I am (I am at around 7700 loaded for the trailer).  I am most likely maxing out the factory hitch weight and even a good bit over but I have a really good WDH.  There are others with the NV Cargo that haul a lot of weight inside the van as well.

[RICK]

The basket hitch is something I use to use with my older vans. I carried excess equipment when needed but never exceeded the 500# limit on the tounge weight.

 

Here is what I suggest is to have a shop that does custom hitches and welding make you up a double 2" receiver socket speread about the same distance as the frame. The 2.5" square tubing will allow a 2" receiver to insert into the square openings. Of course this requires real precision to aling the double sockets to the receiver, but it will work and support your load. Of course depending on the overhang and bottom ground clearance, driveways might be an issue.

 

Of course the weight of the custom basket might be an issue to lift into place too. But it can also be set up as a modular design with hitch pins to join the crossbars. A little creativity and welding, you'll be set.

 

Rick.

[Tatunka]

I don't think you will have a problem at all with those weights and this is why.

 

For your E350 the max tongue weight is 1000lbs per the Ford towing guide. 

 

For the NV3500 Cargo (I used cargo because the trailer hitches, class IV rated for 10,000, are exactly the same as the passenger, so the max tongue wt is the same) the max tongue wt is 950lbs per Nissan, but I am pretty sure it says 1000lbs on the hitch itself.

 

I personally wouldn't be afraid of loading a 1000lbs to the hitch on my NV, plus you got another 1500lbs to load into the van itself (2500lbs payload). The problem with exceeding the tongue weight is, by putting the weight on the rear axle with the load, you are also shifting some of the existing vehicle weight to the rear as well taking weight off of the steering axle. This can cause handling problems and could cause an accident. This is where a WDH comes into play for your TT, which should be easily pulled by the NV as well, because the WDH shifts weight back to the steering axle helping the vehicle to handle better. So keep that in mind when adding weight to the rear of the rear axle.

 

So, for me personally, If the E350 handled the balloon weight ok, the NV will too. Plus the 5.6 is light years ahead of that tired 5.4 in the Ford, so the mountains will be much more enjoyable to drive in. And as far as the TT goes the NV is built way more heavy duty than the RAM 1500 (i used to have a 2011 F150), so if that handled the weight of the TT then so should the NV.

 

My example, I tow a 2013 Outback 301BQ, 7350 dry, Currently at about 8800lbs (so using the 10-15% rule the tongue wt should be around 880-1320lbs), I use an Equal-i-zer WDH. I have towed that setup for about 10,000 miles with no problems.

[breto33]

Thanks for the responses.    I cant see very good photos of the hitch anywhere and didnt look that closely when i test drove (dealer is 45 minutes away) I just want to make sure it is going to be possible to have a shop weld another receiver bracket on each side in order to slide a custom made platform into it and be supported in 3 spots.   Anyone happen to have any pics underneath of the hitch and frame?

 

Thanks

[RICK]

Pretty much my suggestion with the multiple receivers.

 

But keep in mind the overhang of the basket with driveways and also something most people don't realize is the weight and distance overhanging with no support/ wheels. 800# tounge weight is one thing, but overhanging 4' from the hitch now makes that 800# turn into 3200 foot pounds. Makes a hugh difference especially when you hit a bump, dip or pot holes.

 

The triple receiver is a great idea, I was shooting for a double. Might make It easier to align, but you could easily make the basket modular and pin the cross bars to the hitch extensions. Gives you more play and less weight to lift into place.

 

Rick.

[breto33]

Well I went ahead and puled the trigger tonight and bought a black SL.  Off to the welding shop tomorrow to see what they can do will update when  I get it done.

[ASD Dad]

Congrats.  If you need some helper type springs in the back I have had really good luck with Timbrens.  Cheap, out of the way when not needed, bulletproof reliability and they plain work.  They're also quiet and maintenance free.

[breto33]

ASD Dad are these the ones you have: http://timbren.com/products-page/ses/NRNVHD/

[ASD Dad]

ASD Dad are these the ones you have: http://timbren.com/products-page/ses/NRNVHD/

 

Breto - I had them on my Tundra but they are all essentially the same thing.  Heavy duty, hollow, rubber "springs".  When not loaded they dont touch, there is about an inch or so gap of airspace so the ride when unloaded is factory.  Once loaded the frame sits on them like helper springs and the ride isnt bad at all, just firmer with less oscillation.  

 

Supersprings are true helper springs and need maintenance to keep from squeaking and they will always be under load.  They can raise up the rear a bit and the ride will be a bit stiffer.  Roadmaster - same things.  Airbags work very well but cost is higher and then you need to worry about possible line leaks and would need to air them up with loaded and air down when unloaded.  If aired up all the time it defeats the purpose and you will have a stiff ride with a higher rear!  

 

People criticize Timbrens as glorified bump stops and in a way they are, but they are progressive in stiffness and they just plain work with no maintenance.  You cant adjust them like Airbags or the Roadmaster setup but they're cheap and effective.

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

I know I'm a little late to the party, but I 'l thorw in my 2 cents:

 

I have installed Timbrens on heavy trucks / machinery doing special work. I understand there's a time and place for everything, but I don't care for the idea of essentially putting a rubber block in place of the flex area of suspension on a lighter vehicle. The suspension and axle should be designed for the ratings they tell you in the GVW / GCVW payload and all that. If you stay within those specs, then there shoudl be no need to change the suspension.  I also don't think it's necessary on a 3500 NV. Take those heavy seats out and add that weight-saved into the payload listed for a passenger version.

 

I have yet to weigh out each piece, but for traveling long trips, I often have 4 decent sized adults.  I run 2 rows of seats, load the rest of the space down with luggage / gear up to the windows and some gear on the roof rack, and the tongue weight of the travel trailer is right at 1000 pounds -- the van rides perfect and not wishy-washy like an old Econoline work van.

 

  I guess the balloon basket rack sticking out so far off the back would be a cantilevered load that will mess with the handling -- i'd put in on a trailer, myself.

[ASD Dad]

Heavy Metal - a lot of vehicles now are geared towards comfort and not utility.  Look at all the complaints about the newer 3/4T 'Burbs.  Floating ride and terrible handling when loaded but nice and cushy when empty the way the soccer moms wanted it.  My Toyota was the same.  Ride empty was great.  Ride loaded made it bouncy and saggy and that was with Bilsteins.  

 

OFF TOPIC - what roof rack do you have?  I am still looking to get one.

[KMG]

ASD Dad, I too had a Tacoma.  2012 double cab long bed.  Kept it one year.  Not enough truck for me.  Sold it and bought a lemon Mitsubishi Fuso FG that the dealer bought back.  Finding a reliable vehicle has been great.  Finding out just how great the NV is was an additional bonus!  This is my third all time favorite vehicle of the 30 plus I've owned over the years.  That would be an interesting thread.  Ones top ten vehicles owned.  Purchased components for a basic auxiliary battery system.  should arrive this week.  Trying to get the system installed before I leave on the 9th.  

[breto33]

Heavy Metal doctor

 

A trailer unfortunately is not a great option as once I take off it is frequently people driving that can not back a trailer and the necessity of them getting to me quickly almost insures dents in my nice new van, as well as getting in and out of launch nd landing spots is sometimes tough with a trailer.  I had an extended e350 before, and had a tommy lift on the back that by iself probably weight 700 pounds.  I then put the basket on it and the other items in the back.  It was a little springy up front and not fun to drive, but it worked, and this is a very common set up for ballooning.  If the e350 could handle it I realy hope the NV can and the platform weighs less than 100 pounds compared to the tommy lift.

 

I had the platform built yesterday and will get some pics posted for you to see later, unfortunately I now cant open the rear doors with the platform installed which is a ittle inconvenient and we will have to put the envelope in the side door.  

 

Does anyone make a front receiver for the NV?  I have a platform for the front I can put my inflator fan on so not having the doors open would not be a big deal if i had a front hitch. 

[ASD Dad]

ASD Dad, I too had a Tacoma.  2012 double cab long bed.  Kept it one year.  Not enough truck for me.  Sold it and bought a lemon Mitsubishi Fuso FG that the dealer bought back.  Finding a reliable vehicle has been great.  Finding out just how great the NV is was an additional bonus!  This is my third all time favorite vehicle of the 30 plus I've owned over the years.  That would be an interesting thread.  Ones top ten vehicles owned.  Purchased components for a basic auxiliary battery system.  should arrive this week.  Trying to get the system installed before I leave on the 9th.  

 

KMG - I had a Tundra with the Timbrens added on it.  One of my favorite vehicles!  I had a Taco too but only for 2 years, we outgrew it quickly.  I had planned on driving my Tundra into the ground but we outgrew that as well...  

[RICK]

Not sure if a front receiver is commercially built for the nv as its a very small market for that application on that van.

 

But I'm sure the person that fabricated the rear triple hitch can easily remove the tow hooks and utilize the front mounts. It should help balance out the load.

 

But between your 4' rear overhang and front overhang, good luck with sloped driveways.

 

I have a trailer I can no loger get up some driveways, that my sprinter was able too.

 

Can you put a drop down side / hinges on your rear carrier to allow the doors to open.

 

Rick.

[radin2son]

If you go with a front hitch and plan to buy a NVP, stay away from the SL with the bleeping, no make that beeping front sonar/sensors.