Failed Crankshaft Sensor - Stranded

[Mc2guy]

Unfortunately, I have to report a fairly major breakdown on my 2014 3500 SL.  While driving on the interstate on the way to my wife's grandmother's funeral, the van stalled three times consecutively, the third time going into limp mode and leaving us stranded along the interstate in MD.  Fortunately for us, we were about 4 miles from a Nissan dealership and it was early enough in teh day that we were able to get towed, check the vehicle in, and find an open rental car agency to continue our trip to lay my wife's grandmother to rest.

 

The long and short of it is the crankshaft sensor failed, which cascaded resulted in a brain-dead ECM throwing too much fuel into the engine and destroying the catalytic converters in the process.  I suspect th problem started a few weeks earlier, but I had chalked up a bit of a rough idle to the rain and having recently filled up at a suspect gas station. Had I gone directly to the dealer at that time, I could have avoided the damage to the cats (maybe), but honestly, it was running well enough that it just didn't occur to me that it could be anything serious.  The cost to replace the sensor and cats came to $4873 and it took two weeks for them to get it diagnosed and the parts to come in.

 

Now, that said, I have a '14 with the 5yr/100k bumper to bumper and Nissan did me right.  No haggling, no charges, and they paid for my rental car directly (no reimbursement), and the dealership even arranged to have the rental agency pick up my rental so I could just leave it at the dealership.  All told, Nissan just spent about $5500 for a problem caused by a $20 part. It will take a while for me to have the confidence in this vehicle that I once did.  This is the only car I've owned in 25 years of driving and ~ 13 cars to have left me stranded.  Worse yet, with my family two hours from home.  

 

The service manager, (Doug at Younger Nissan in Fredrick MD) was awesome to work with and like I said, Nissan fixed the problem to my satisfaction.  He said he had only seen this 3 times this this vehicle was launched and mine was the first he had seen on the 5.6L V8 (the other two were on the V6).  He tried to reassure me that in his opinion, the NV was the most reliable vehicle that Nissan sold and they he rarely saw any problems with any of the fleet he services, so that was nice to hear. 

 

 

[ASD Dad]

It's a part and parts fail.  Doesnt matter if it has a 0.01% failure rate, one failed.  Unfortunately for you it happened at a bad time in a bad place.  I would be PO'd and up in arms as well but Nissan took care of it exactly as they should have.  Had they not done anything then you could go crazy.

 

I wouldnt lose confidence in what has proved a very reliable vehicle over a $20 part.  I had a valve spring float on me while autocrossing with a fairly new Celica GTS.  Pistons contacted the valves and destroyed my engine.  One small spring out of 16 of them and destroyed a brand new engine.  Toyota swapped the engine out, paid for my rental the 2 weeks I was waiting for the repair and extended my powertrain warranty.  I still ran the car hard up until I traded it years later and I'd still buy a Toyota in a heartbeat.

 

Point being it that it doesnt matter how small the part is, it matters what it controls.  You could lose a $2 relay in your fuel system and that would strand you as well.  You could have your door lock switch go out and that would be an annoyance.  

 

Be happy you have one of the best warranties out there, Nissan did their job and enjoy driving the van.

[Chris_CommercialManager]

I would not lose confidence either.  I've seen a problem here or there ever so rarely.  The worst I've seen in a year here is a faulty oxygen sensor that left a new customer stranded on an NV200, he was not happy but we fixed him up FAST and got him back on the road immediately.  It's simply inevitable with so many parts on such a complex piece of equipment that a part may fail on a vehicle here or there.......or worse yet you could be hit with recall like so many other brands have had in recent years.

 

This is definitely the most reliable vehicle in the lineup.....

 

I'm glad to see you had a good experience at the dealership.  We try very hard to fix up our clients right the first time.

[radin2son]

Not so fast guys. Was this a NV exclusive sensor or one typically used with Titan or Frontier engines and/or crankshafts? If so, the failure rate historically may be much higher than reported by one dealership. Nissan and other manufacturers are not likely to voluntarily disclose recurring problems. Service managers and techs may only be able to disclose what they know at that dealership unless there is a service bulletin. Case in point was the failure of the canister sensor on our NV. We were told 99% of fixes worked, so we went with that. (This occurred after our 36K warranty expired and we paid for it. Since it was an ongoing issue Nissan agreed to reimburse us. They did but not because it was an emissions failure, covered for 5 years or 50k miles.) No one else on this forum reported a similar problem, so which vehicles were having the problem?

 

Those of us with the 36K warranty have pleanty to worry about. Yes, Nissan stuck by their 100K warranty, but... $4000 repair. Eventually everyone will exceed both warranties.

 

ASD Dad, When we crash in cycling races, our frame warranties are null and void. I picked the wrong type of racing.

 

Chris_cm, Ask your service manager about TItan and Frontier powered vehicles other than NVs. There may be similar issues out there and maybe a service bulletin or two over the past 12 years.

 

No word yet on truck of the year, but it looks like Titan poor mpg continues with the Titan XD. 17.7 mpg for a diesel?

Edited December 5, 2015 by radin2son

[radin2son]

Code PO335.

 

To answer my question, Has this been a problem with Nissan vehicles? Yes. Recalls issued for Altimas and Sentras, possibly Maximas. Problems reported in earlier Titans and Xterras.

 

Mc2Guy described the symptoms, both early and what left him stranded, that various links echo.

 

Sensor can be contaminated by engine fluids and short out. Sensor placement also seems to be a problem.

 

So is it an honest answer that there are no sensor problems etc with NVs? Yet, by chance Mc2Guy happens upon a dealership with 2 known NV V6 crankshaft sensor issues. Time to get real...

[ASD Dad]

If you're going to be paranoid about a part failing dont drive.  All vehicles have failing parts.  Some are quite expensive and are denied by the company until Class Action suits show up (look up Porsche 996 Intermediate Shaft Bearing Failures).  How would you like to be stuck with a blown engine in that car??  BMW M5 E60 series?  bad engines.  Corvettes are going through engine issues right now.  Ford Ecoboost engines getting water in their intercoolers?  

 

get the point?

 

If you're out of warranty your best bet would be to find a local mechanic you trust if you are going to worry.

[ASD Dad]

rad - forgot to mention, I had a good friend who worked at the Toyota Dealership.  Had I need on a track with it (and I have many times) the warranty is pretty much void for a failure like that.  Since it was an autocross it was easy to get a flat bed tow truck to come get me and to the dealer.  What's ironic is autocrossing can be be much tougher on the car vs. a track event.

[radin2son]

I "get the point" but not the reason.

 

This is not about a random failing part; rather, this particular type of sensor failure resulted in Altima and Sentra recalls. The Titan forum has many posts about this sensor failing and how to replace it. The good news is that I could not find any posts where the catalytic converter was destroyed. The sensor also is available at most auto parts stores and on line.

 

A more honest response from Nissan should have been, "We have not seen this sensor problem before in NV V8s, but there were problems with earlier Titans..." Then add what was done by Nissan to correct it etc. If it was not corrected, what action should be taken when the engine runs rough and stalls.

 

2 NV V6s at the same dealership should prompt V6 owners to check Frontier, Pathfinder and Xterra forums to see what the history is. Google Nissan Frontier crankshaft sensor problems. It will bring up the forum faster.

 

Mc2Guy did not mention, maybe he did, seeing the check engine light coming on. The Titan forum mentioned it should have. There also was mention of Nissan Corp having codes only they, not the service techs, can read. What's up with that.

[ASD Dad]

Rad - a dealer will never, ever admit to past problems.  The service manager would get fired.  They always deny things up front which is why it is nice to have internet forums these days as well as access to techs.  There are a bunch of them on the Tundra forums who will anonymously post up links to TSB's and other issues so we can bring those in with us during service work in case they do deny it.  Then they quickly change their tune and fix things up.  The Tundra had a bed shake issue and drive shaft clunk that was denied constantly.  Funny enough there were two TSB's to fix both.  Later on there were AIP failures which is emissions related and would strand the truck.  Denied issue until enough stink was raised by all owners.  It was a $400-ish part.  Now there is a TSB and they extended the warranty on that part to 10yr, 100K miles.

 

Here is the thing about the internet and customers in general.  Happy customers dont post much or talk to many.  They may tell 5 friends how happy they are with the product.  Unhappy customers will tell anyone that will listen what a terrible problem it is and how bad things are.   They'll go to every site they can find - forums, Yelp, Google+, FB, Twitter, etc and shout from the rafters about the problem.  

Granted we are a small lot of owners and this forum is minuscule compared to other vehicle forums but I believe this is the first complaint about this part.  I would think if others have had the problem, V6 or V8, they would have found our little forum and posted up.  I know I probably would, even if it was just to find out if there are similar incidents!

 

The good thing about this is we now know there could be an issue.  We also know possible symptoms.  If we do get more feedback we can arm ourselves for issues after the warranty period is up if it turns out to be somewhat common by pointing out past problems.

[ASD Dad]

rad again - curious about the bike frame warranty.  My next door neighbor is an insane MTB enthusiast.  His bikes are worth way more than either of his two cars and he races XC to DH.  I was talking to him this weekend about his bikes when I brought up your comment. His expensive Giant carbon frame cracked at the BB during a hard crash at a local race.  He didnt even realize it until he had it on the stand for cleanup and part fixing.  Giant stopped making the frame but ended up giving him full credit towards a new frame which he happily took.  

 

You'd think bike companies would want their name in races for others to see and would take care of the riders if something happened.  Who's to say it wouldnt have broken in a fun ride vs. a race??

[radin2son]

Lots of variables, just like a car. Depends on his local shop, local rep, manufacturer etc.

 

I started racing on steel frames in the 70's. We could crash these and nothing happened. No warranty either. Just kept replacing components as they wore out. Next went to aluminum, crashed hard; no problems. I rode and raced one aluminum frame 31k in 3 years. Never crashed it, yet it reached the end of its racing life due to probable frame fatigue. Typically along the chain stay, drive side. Gave it away to a teen who couldn't afford a road bike and wanted to try racing. Cannondale frames come with a lifetime warranty and would replace this frame if it broke and I still rode it. My local shop would probably get the rep to replace it anyway. My next race bike was carbon. Never crashed it, but it cracked along the down tube with less than 10K. I heard it, but we couldn't find it until it got larger after it was traded for components for my steel xc bike. Cervelo replaced the frame with a little intervention from the shop. My road bike also is stainless steel.

 

Back to your friend. Giant may replace race crashed mtb frames or don't ask. Their frames also may crack regularly near the bottom bracket. Older Cannondale carbon frames regularly cracked along the top tube near the seat tube. It was referred to as a "wear indicator" by shop wrenches. Frames are relatively cheap to replace for manufactuers.

 

Back to the topic. Since we cannot afford to bring our VW mechanic, who is willing to take on an NV, with us on trips, what would be a good scanner or code reader to take along on trips. Are codes universal across manufactuers? It would be nice to know if the code signifies a serious problem or not.

[ASD Dad]

Rad - I raced criterion style events in HS.  I got schooled bad even though I was in great shape (ran 3200m in track and XC all through school including state finals).  Roadies are machines on two wheels.  I rode MTB for a really long time for fun and did the dual slalom races.  XC guys were in roadie shape and DH guys had way too much money and didnt care if they broke bones!

 

OK, back on topic, we can discuss bikes and stuff elsewhere on here!

 

==========

 

Do you have a smartphone?  If yes, there are any number of cheap-ish dongles that will plug into your OBD port under the dash and stream data via Bluetooth.  You can then use the software to read the codes or if it's really cheap you will have to simply Google the code.  Check out Amazon for most of them and reviews.  The nicer ones can do other things like reset the codes if it's something simple like a loose gas cap and you want to turn off the CEL or even if you end up fixing the issue yourself you can reset it.

 

If you do not have a smartphone there are just a little more expensive handheld units that will do the same thing.  The cheap ones simply show the code and you'll have to research online.  The better ones have a database where you can search the code on the scanner.

 

The smartphone can be used real-time while driving if you want to see what is going on with MPG or any number of other variables.  

 

If you want real-time standalone then get something like the Scangauge.  My Bully Dog GT Tuner acts like a Scangauge as well as being a tuner but I am guessing you dont want to flash your ECU for tuning...

[radin2son]

Yes, we have a smart phone. It would be great to have a plug in that also reset codes. I'll check it out. Thanks.

[Decades]

I use a flat OBD extension to a Bluetooth bridge, and use the Torque Pro ($5) app on a Samsung Galaxy Player to automatically call out (and clear) CEL fault codes. It also logs them, in case it is not one that is expected. I get the post-catalytic trim too lean banks 1 and 2 from the supercharger that I haven't had deleted from the ECU yet.

It clears them before I notice the light almost all of the time, and the app's voice gives the brief description as it comes in and is cleared. The bluetooth bridge is powered from the OBD port and an internal battery, and I keep the Samsung in the console plugged in and typically leave it on as long as I know the truck will be used again within a day or two.

[ASD Dad]

I use a flat OBD extension to a Bluetooth bridge, and use the Torque Pro ($5) app on a Samsung Galaxy Player to automatically call out (and clear) CEL fault codes. It also logs them, in case it is not one that is expected. I get the post-catalytic trim too lean banks 1 and 2 from the supercharger that I haven't had deleted from the ECU yet.

It clears them before I notice the light almost all of the time, and the app's voice gives the brief description as it comes in and is cleared. The bluetooth bridge is powered from the OBD port and an internal battery, and I keep the Samsung in the console plugged in and typically leave it on as long as I know the truck will be used again within a day or two.

 

You have a Quigley that is supercharged?!  Do tell more!  I assume it is the Titan Stillen kit.  Was it bolt and play?  Any tuning issues?  Any other issues or mods done to the engine?  ie: exhaust, intake, headers, etc?  Any transmission issues from that much power and torque?  

 

I'm not willing to give up my long warranty but I was eyeing that Stillen kit wondering if it would fit.  My BD GT tuner helps a ton but a SC is on a whole different level.  

[radin2son]

Decades, Thanks.

 

There was an earlier post and response regarding check engine light. The response pointed out that auto parts stores (O'Reilly's and Autozone) will pull up the code. Much easier to find than an NV dealer.

[ASD Dad]

Pick up the Bluetooth code reader, they're only $10 for the basic models.  They way you guys travel who knows if you can find a autoparts store either!  With the code reader it works whenever and wherever you happen to be.  You'll also know right away if it is safe to keep driving to the nearest Nissan dealer or if it needs something more serious like a tow truck or mechanic.  

[Mc2guy]

Don't know where this got off track...

 

ASD: never said a word about not driving it... only expressed lack of confidence in its reliability.  Nissan made me whole as I expected and as I stated, but don't for a minute think that means I won't be thinking about this issue when driving across the country this summer.  (And don't pretend you wouldn't worry about it if you had been stranded on the side of busy interstate with your family).

 

Statistically, this appears to be a relatively reliable vehicle, but that doesn't mean my confidence hasn't been shaken. I usually get new vehicles every 4-5 years, so probably not an issue for me overall since I will likely sell it before the warranty expires, but disappointing none-the-less.

 

FWIW, I do have a Bluetooth ODBII reader.  The vehicle did NOT throw a fault code.  Again, there were no codes after any of the three stalls, including the last one where the vehicle went into limp move before stalling.  I confirmed this with the dealer.  They had to attempt to start and run the engine to get a diagnostic.

[radin2son]

We got bored waiting for an update. My only defense regarding cycling is that new frame materials are not better than old, just lighter and prone to early failure. Same might be said for new engine technology.

 

No check engine light? And no fault code...

 

Nissan fixed it, you know what was replaced, but why did this happen?