New camper conversion in Tucson!

[DesertTed]

Gangsta! I like that better than the "armored car" look.

 

Things are moving along. H3 racks on top (duh, where else would they be?). I bought two, but I should have bought three as we want to put things on top (most vital, propane) that need to be secured to a cross member. We've mounted plywood to the two racks in front of the fan housing and will be putting two 140 watt solar panels up. Twenty-five square feet of shade-good to help with the sun here in Arizona.

 

The boys are saying my electrical project looks like spaghetti. I don't know why, besides the two stock 12 volt, USB and 120 volt AC outlets, that I needed to add seven 12v outlets,ten USB and two 120 volt AC outlets. To be fair, two of the USB and the two AC outlets are on the inverter. And I can't forget the five light fixtures with toggle switches. It kinda got away from me, ya think? Seemed like a good idea to start out with. With all that power use, I need to keep an eye on amps flowing, so I'm installing two ammeters, one for the solar input and the other for the CTEK output to the batteries. Now, I wonder how much of it will work when I fire up the whole project (hopefully "fire" won't be the operative word). Testing with the multimeter can only do so much, only real life will tell. I am a 12 volt maven now!

 

I have ascertained, most importantly, between the Smartpass, the 280 watts solar on top, and the 100 watts solar suitcase,that we will have more than adequate juice to use our Keurig coffee maker. Provided that we have sun.

 

I have my antenna (removable) plans for the cell phone booster, the TV, and the wifi. They should top out at about seventeen feet. We'll only be able to use only two at a time.

 

I know that we're going way overboard on all the"improvements", but Blanca will be our only home for at least two or three years. Once we've moved in, I prefer not to have to make a mess to install things, nor we have a place to do things. So, hopefully, doing more now will forestall future projects.

 

Things are moving slower than we want, as we're simultaneously readying the house for sale. It's like swimming in molasses. But good news-we've boomeranged #3 son out for his fifth round! Next time there won't be a homestead to boomerang back into. #4 son will boomerang out for the fourth time when the house is sold. Mum's a chump, eh? I can't really complain much, they're good kids, so it's been nice to have them around.

 

Photos and more details to come.

Edited January 31, 2017 by DesertTed

[DesertTed]

Yay!!! Of course I didn't get most everything done that I had planned until after sunset, but I couldn't resist connecting the battery. So, of what was expected to function: 6 USB outlets work, a 12 volt outlet works,two voltmeters and the ammeter work, the overhead light and the fantastic vent fan works! The only 2 items that didn't work were the rear LED lights. I think I messed up the ground on those. I wasn't quite sure as there was an extra male butt connector (I don't know the correct term) on each switch. Tomorrow I'll fix those, get the second fuse box connected and we'll see how this grand experiment works out for the rest of the project.

 

When I started this, I had no idea where to start. Between my sailboat 12 volt Bible, extensive research on the web and generous help from folk on CheapRVliving.com, I was able to do this. I am very pleased. Yes, I am bragging, but this is just to show how a total neophyte can accomplish a task that I would have thought beyond me.

 

Thanks for listening (kinda sorta).

Ted

Edited February 1, 2017 by DesertTed

[NVAir]

nice!

[DesertTed]

Solar progress!

 

We didn't want to drill a bunch of holes in the roof to mount the solar panels. And the roof rack placement with our vent fan and housing made it impossible to mount the panels directly on to the roof racks securely. So Hub laid down 3/4" plywood with 3 coats of paint with primer on to the roof racks. Hub also is a member of the Department of Redundancy Department, so he fastened the wood to the roof racks with 24 bolts. He mounted the panels with the Renogy solar panel mount Z Brackets. Six per panel for a total of 24 screws and rubber washer type thingies that came with the brackets.

 

Oh, the panels are 140 watt Cynergy monocrystaline that are $112 a piece from SolarBlvd in California (I think that's the name). I mention the seller because I had a question about connecting the cables. The woman who answered the phone transferred me to technical support and the gentleman to whom I spoke answered promptly. He was very helpful and I was able to text him pictures of my question and he got right back to me after conferring with a colleague there. Stateside, understandable, unaccented English. I don't want to be bigot, but that can be very helpful with a technical question.

 

I finished the electrical! The problem I had was not because of something I had done wrong, it was a crappy part I got from AutoZone. Can I also recommend that you use BlueSeas electrical hardware?

 

But I'm not going to post a photo of my electric system panel. Wollip's is so much prettier. Since I have the same CTEK system, I'll be generous to myself and say it looks like his (kinda sorta). Connecting the rooftop solar cable,getting some conduit on my spaghetti of wires and diagramming the system is the last thing I have to do to call it complete. I counted it up and (separate from the stock Nissan outlets), I now have four LED lights with remote switches, the Fantastic Vent ceiling fan, eight 12 volt outlets, ten USB outlets, two voltmeters and two ammeters (one on the solar input and one going out of the CTEK system to the battery bank). Like I said in another post, I hate wires stretched all over the place, so I have outlets (or multiple outlets) anywhere we could possibly need them. And I'm a gadget queen, so I need outlets! The inverter has two USB outlets, in addition to the AC outlets.

 

Another compliment to Shawn at Big Sky Mobile RV Tech Services here in Tucson who installed the 4 gauge cable and other goodies from the engine compartment (with a circuit breaker there, too), under the vehicle, and up through the floor. Since my electric system is right over the gas tank area, he was able to go around the tank nicely. Since I am physically unable to scoot on my back under the vehicle to look at Shawn's work, Hub did and said it looked "very professionally done and well-executed". Shawn quoted me a price when he came to the house (did I mention that he only does house calls?) . When he had finished, I asked him to do one thing more. He needed one part and came back the next morning (on Saturday) and finished up. I asked him how much more did it cost for the second visit, amazingly, he said that there was no extra charge for the coming back. Of course I gave him extra money. YMMV.

 

Last, but not least, I attached my 100 watt portable solar suitcase to the CTEK solar input in the front yard this morning. It was fairly hazy, but it was still putting out about 5 amps.

 

Gadzooks! This is slowly coming together! I'm almost bursting with anticipation of our adventure! Or was that the brisket that I had for dinner tonight?

Edited February 4, 2017 by DesertTed

[DesertTed]

In case you're wondering why we put a gap between the solar panels? Well, considering that we'll be traveling on the "Blue Highways" (William Least Heat-Moon's wonderful book), we'll need to get up on the roof with a lopper and bow saw in order to cut down plant matter that may impede our progress. The gap is just barely wide enough for Hub's foot, to allow him to stand in the front of the vehicle to clear the low hanging green stuff. It's very unfortunate that my very wide feet won't fit in the gap. It's terrible that I'll not have the the foilage cutting duties. Maybe I'll sip tea while I supervise.

[breeze]

That's really looking nice! Do you track your gas mileage closely? I thought the panels placed as close to the roof as possible may help mileage, but there has to be some break-off point somewhere, unless you had something like a hood deflector in front of it. You have a big pooper-scooper behind it too, but it has it's own built in deflector (8,75' + deflector height - high van.)

 

Everything fits real well on your roof though, and looks very professional. 

[DesertTed]

Hey breeze,

I mentioned in my post that we didn't want to drill into the roof for the solar panels-24 screws! And the way the roof racks had to be situated, because of the fan and housing, we couldn't connect the panels directly to them. Also, the panels cannot be fastened flush to any surface because there will be increased heat concentration and heat decreases the solar efficiency. So we were left with the plywood solution. Not the most graceful, but it does have the added benefit of giving 25 sq feet of shade to the roof, especially since we'll be in sunny warm weather a lot of the time. I looked into installing a fairing. From what this non-technical reader was able to ascertain, is that a fairing will help with noise, but the jury is out on how much it would help the gas mileage, which is abysmal even under the best conditions.

 

We assume that that we'll take a hit in the gas mileage, but how much, don't know yet. In the city, given that we are hardly ever able to go over 40 mph, the mpg is the same. Tucson is not a normal city in that I believe that the lights are synchronised so you hit every single red light. It's just about impossible to hypermile here, though I am pretty good at it. I get about 2 mpg more than Hub does, just having a much more conservative driving style. If you're in a hurry, You.Do.Not.Want.To.Drive.Behind.Me!

 

As far as highway mileage, I went up to Phoenix and back (all highway) with just the plywood and the roof racks-both new items. We check our gas mileage with every tank. With the round trip, about a 200 miles drive we got about 15 mpg, which is our norm for highway mileage. But, we had a lovely tailwind on the way up, with only weaker front quartering wind on the way down into Tucson. The only difference that I could tell with the plywood on top is an increase, but not a huge change, of wind noise. It wasn't noticeable unless I actually tried to listen for it.

 

We'll be making another drive to Phoenix and Scottsdale this week, this time with the whole shebang on top, and we'll see how it goes. If the gas situation is much worse than we're willing to tolerate, then we will likely install a fairing. But, we don't plan to drive too fast, and will be taking the scenic route while traveling on our walkabout. So, at this point, it's not super high on our concerns chart. Getting the vehicle functional and the house sold are our main objectives for now. I'll keep y'all posted with the mpg status from our drive. Unfortunately, wind usually plays a significant variable factor on mileage, so we can almost never have a controlled environment for computations. But in the long run, it all averages out. The average mileage with our vehicle, even before modifications, always sucks. Sucky or suckier gasoline consumption, that's our choice. But there was no better choice than the Nissan NV eight cylinder for our camping conversion. Not Fiat, not Ford, certainly not $Mercedes$, and none of the non-hightop vans were even on our very short list.

 

Ted

[Thomas New]

I am really surprised by your reported 14mpg with a V8. I have the V6 high top and drive mostly on the freeway. I have nothing on the roof yet and I get a consistent 14mpg. I was at the Rubber Tramp Rendezvous just a couple weeks ago where there were a few other NV's there. All of our MPG matched and the V8's reported 12mpg highway. You are doing something right. That is for sure. I live in Mesa BTW.

[DesertTed]

I compete with myself all the time on getting better mileage. In town, we get about 12mpg-its not possible to get any better because of where and when we drive. But in any case, I drive like there's a raw egg between my foot and the gas pedal. I watch the rpm's and gently accelerate into the higher gears and stay just above where the transmission will downshift. I'm able to run at about 1200 rpm until I'm at about forty. I don't draft. I don't coast in neutral. And I look way ahead. When stuck at a light,I usually leave several car lengths in front of me and then let the idling engine gain momentum before the vehicles in front of me even start to accelerate. I drive several miles under the flow of traffic so it flows around me like water

 

Unlike our last vehicle, a Honda Fit, people don't ride my ass, they just drive around me, because I'm a big girl now. And I have a handicapped plate. Usually when you are behind a car with handicapped plates which is driving slowly, dontcha sometimes think to yourself, "Maybe that guy is mentally handicapped, that's why he/she is driving that way!" And ya just shake your head and go around. I'm really obnoxious.

 

I am hardly ever in a hurry. That helps.

Edited February 6, 2017 by DesertTed

[DesertTed]

And if someone beeps at me or shoots me a bird, I just have a real big smile and wave like he/she is my best long lost friend. Then they think I'm truly loony tunes. And can't wait to get away.

[breeze]

Yes, that is good mpg. 

Of course considering the CD friction, the tall vans should be getting at least a couple of mpg better than the Standard height vans (even if they look like $80K SUV's.)

 

The exact tilt of the plywood would make a huge difference, but maybe you hit the optimum air flow angle the first time as evidenced by your good mpg rates. MPG would be my only concern, but not anymore. Good project van you have going so far and thanks for your documentation, pics, feedback, and all.

[DesertTed]

So, now we know that the two layers, the plywood and the solar panels didn't affect the mileage negatively. Today we drove 299.1 miles at 16.5651307045 mpg (more or less). Hub says that as far as he knows, that the solar panel installation is level, parallel to the roof. I'm pretty surprised, I too, thought that mileage would have been much worse.

 

But Hub did drive at the sweet spot of 62-63 mph. We've found that speed is the optimum. We stay to the right and we're not rude. Maybe those who get worse mileage on the highway aren't going so slowly?

Ted

[breeze]

When I put this curved rubber/steel stealth edging around my motorcycle windshield (to scoop the air over my helmet to reduce helmet-visor rattle noise), I thought it would slow me down (efficiency in speed = economy efficiency). It did not one bit. The stabilization factor (like spoilers) makes a big difference in vehicle wind drag efficiency. It's hard I'm sure to tell if a 7K lb vehicle is more stable, so I won't ask.

 

** How are you getting your gas mileage measures?

 

 

Thanks!

[DesertTed]

Usually, we try to have about 300 miles minimum used in each tank. We go to the same gas station. Then we set the pump handle to go in at the same angle each time and let the pump run until it clicks off. The we divide the miles driven by the amount of gas dispensed.

 

We do a running calculation of our mileage, so even if there are minor variations, the mileage trend is quite accurate in the long run.

Ted

[DesertTed]

Our newest addition is up and pretty much finished.  The kitchen sink cabinet!  Not that we have everything else yet.  We had to wait until the bed base was in before we could position it in place.  I'm not posting the bed photos until we have that completely finished.

 

We used a stock Lowes 20" kitchen cabinet, with a solid wood back.  Mindful of how flimsy these thing can be, we reinforced it with assistance from our favorite quasi-governmental agency, the Department of Redundancy Department. Hub glued and screwed in 22 L-brackets, ten around the inside of the base and twelve scattered all around the upper inside of the cabinet. And used nine assorted bolts and screws attaching the cabinet to the floor and base of the bed. I'll put some of that industrial Velcro on for when the door is closed while we're driving in order to maintain the structural integrity of the cabinet door and protection from vibration while driving.

 

For the tiny counter top enclosing the sink, we used a solid wood counter top from IKEA. Since the cabinet is only 20" wide, the 16"x 18" sink we got from Amazon pretty much filled it up.  But I have a very large cutting board from way back that will cover the sink so I can use it as a work surface.  Because the sink was butted up against the bed and the driver's seat, I could foresee water and other liquid matter splashing in either direction. To limit that we used more of that counter top material we had as little walls, like a library carrel.  I'm going to make good use of that vertical space by mounting a soap dispenser, a little spice rack and odds and ends on them and the back wall.  

 

There will be no faucet or grey water tank.  The sink will drain into a 5 gallon water jug (or something)and we can dump it on the bushes whenever needed.  As far as running water, we prefer not to have it, just another thing to go wrong.  We've done so much camping without running water, we don't feel it is needed to keep us happy.

 

The next thing to finish is the carpentry around the bed. Since it's just a double bed, there will be room on each side of the bed to make small little cabinets with opening "wings".  That will take photos to explain.

 

Simultaneously, we're running all the wires coming in from the roof.  We finally decided to have three antennas: cell phone booster, a WiFi antenna and a TV antenna.  When those are through the roof, then the ceiling will be finished. Hopefully, we'll finally get the cabinets and wall paneling up next.  At that point, we'll have lots of little details to sew up. including installing that little electrical panel and ground bus. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by DesertTed

[Thomas New]

OK so when you fill up and you get back in the van your estimated mileage is 430 or more? You are saying you get over 40 miles per tank more than everyone else I have ever talked to including myself. Are you sure you are calculating correctly. Take the estimated millage after you fill up and divide it by 28 and see if it matches close to your 15.5 MPG. I am not saying you are lying, I just have no clue how you are getting such a drastic increase in mileage even with solar panels on the roof. Also Breeze, the hi tops get about 2 mpg less than the standard roof. The high tops are giant sails going down the road. Also for me I have added a lot of weight now that the batteries are installed and it still has not affected the milage. I get a solid 14.09 MPG no matter what so far. 

 

I like your sink. I am almost to installing my sink as well. 

[DesertTed]

First of all, I wouldn't drain my tank of 28 gallons.

 

Second, I grew up in the automotive industry.  I've had 18 brand new cars, including diesels and high performance ones.  I've been checking my mileage since the 1970's fuel crisis.  I have tracked every tankful of gas since we bought this vehicle. I think I know what I'm doing.  I'm not going to get into a p*****g contest. End of subject.

[Thomas New]

No pissing match was intended. I just wanted to know how you were getting such differant numbers. I think by your answer I have satisfactory figured that out. You exaggerated your MPG. You shouldn't do things like that. Especially when websites like Fuely exist where over 280 fuel records exist. It is so easy to see what so many owners are getting. Not a single person got what you have BTW. Hence my confusion. I know this might be embarrassing but just be careful not to exaggerate. It just isn't necessary. I thought for sure you had just made a mistake. Thanks for your response. 

[DesertTed]

I will say one more thing:

 

You can call me a liar.  That means my husband is a liar too, as he is a math teacher who does all the numbers.  You are so kind.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving

[DesertTed]

Well folks, it's time to say goodbye. I'm an old woman and my sleep is too precious to lose because I'm so upset to be publicly,wrongly, accused of lying.

 

I started this thread because, online, I didn't see much on converting an NV, especially in minute, sometimes intricate and at times, embarrassing detail. We've done this work with only drill, jig saw, an angle grinder (for the sheet metal) and hand tools. I'm proud of what my husband and I have accomplished in our neophytic, bumbling, and roundabout fashion. While I wouldn't say that the time and energy that I have expended in documenting our work has been a labor of love, I hoped that I could give helpful information for some inexperienced person thinking about doing a conversion like ours.

 

Instead, my thread has been hijacked and trolled. I know that I will no longer take pleasure in composing here, knowing what is contained within. I am not accepting of the new normal of ignoring a nasty person and then blithely continuing on my way.

 

So, I bid the rest of of you adieu. I thank all the rest of you for your help and support. Take care.

Ted

[ASD Dad]

If you leave then the trolls win which is what they want.

 

Regarding MPG - your right foot has a much higher factor on MPG than almost any other factor combined - period.  One person getting extraordinary mileage means nothing more other than they are driving differently especially if they admit to doing such.  My old friend works at a Toyota dealer and drove a Prius for several years.  He and his coworkers who also had Prius (no clue what the plural of Prius is...) had little contests to see who could get the highest and also the worst MPG out of them.  If they hyper-miled, didnt run the AC or heat much, kept windows up, etc. then they could hit some crazy numbers.  I think my friend got in the 70's a few times.  For the worst, they drove them like a sportscar, stomping on the gas at green lights, not coasting to stops, running AC and heat all the time so the engine wouldnt turn off at stops, etc.  They still got in the high 30's.

 

Point being - same exact cars.  Same year, model, etc.  70mpg to 35mpg on a tank all dependent on their right foot and driving practices.

[mk1_62]

Also, isn't there a guy out there getting like 8 mpg? And another one getting around 23? We fall into the 11 city and 16 hwy. We are a low top and I sometimes have a lead foot.

[Thomas New]

Just because I asked for clarification on a statement I found to be hard to figure out does not make me a troll. Notice that is my real face and my real name. I said you exaggerated or made a mistake. I did not call you a liar. If I meant liar I would have said liar. I think you are being too sensitive. I have put a lot of effort into improving my MPG in my own van. Then you say you have bested all my efforts by just driving slower and less aggressive. Of course I wanted to know how you did that. Now if you would have said I got 15.5 coming back from Flagstaff I wouldn't have blinked an eye. You made me believe that is what you get all the time in Tucson with solar panels installed the way you pictured in a previous post. I find this to be unlikely so I asked you to clarify. I didn't realize you would get so upset as to want to pick up your toys and go home. Enjoy your thread. I apologize for my unintentional disruption.  

[breeze]

Thomas, Driving I-10 in lower TX w/o gas stations, I got 12 mpg more by just slowing down to 55 mph (in a 1994 Dodge Dakota 6 cyl. w/over 300k miles(!) and that is just one factor in driving patterns you can change for better mileage.

 

And the DC of the high top is significantly lower than the low top, which equates to better wind flow efficiency (or gas mileage - about 2 mpg!) Van weight is the biggest mileage detraction, with DC ( wind Drag Coefficient) being the second most important mileage factor.) It's all about weight and wind drag coefficient. Just ask all the big rig's on the road with similar roof scoops as the high top NV for gas mileage efficiency.

 

Desert Ted is a wonderful pioneer. I have learned a great deal from her/him/them.

[Simon & B]

Here's a minor addition to this thread:

 

We get 12 mpg with our standard roof 3500 SL - whilst towing a trailer whose cd is similar to that of a barn door.

 

DesertTed has shown up on the Lance Camper forum - Lance Owners of America. We enjoy her posts there.