The New or Used Debate

[mgmoore7]

We have narrowed down our search to a very specific model, color, etc. and for specific reasons that I won't bore you with all of the details.

 

We have had a rule for quite a number of years that we do not purchase new and we only buy white (for paint longevity reasons).  We bought a Excursion in 2011 and put a extra seat in it for our family of 9.  We need to replace it.  The Excursion was a stop gap until the new Ford or other options became available.

 

So, here we are at the point of needing to make a move but I am considering breaking my own rules since there just are not that many options.

 

We want a NV Passenger SL in silver or blue and my preferrence is a 2015 / 16 with under 25k miles.  

 

I generally prefer white but it just looks so commercial in this vehicle.  Since the van can't fit in our garage, silver is better.  We live in FL and the heat and sun take a toll on paint.  We plan to keep it for 10 years and I want it to still look good in 10 years.  I take good care of my vehicles but it will be in the sun 100% of the time.

 

So the challenge is that finding the specific model / color / miles / price will be difficult if not impossible.

 

The alternative is just buy new and get exactly what we want but that will cost at least 5k more.  That is alot of money....

 

Ideas, thoughts, help me go one way or the other...

 

Thanks

 

Matt

 

[andy_george]

Tough call. I faced the same dilemma in '14 trying to find a used NV. There just weren't any nice passenger models on the used market. I'm guessing the market isn't much larger now than it was then.

 

If you aren't in a big hurry spend a month looking at all the auto sales sites, Craigslist, etc. If you don't find anything that fits your criteria for enough savings over new, just bite the bullet and order a new one. Rates are low.... Get the shortest term you can afford and rest assured you made the best choice possible. And if the worst-case scenario happens and you need to sell it for cash, it's is comforting to know that the NVs retain their value extremely well because of their durability and rarity.

 

Let us know where you head with your decision!

 

-Andy

[mgmoore7]

Andy

Thanks.  There are definitely more on the used market now but most are white SV.   Waiting till closer to the end of of the year is probably a good idea even if we go new since the dealers should be most interested in lowering prices.  I have not yet seen any 2017s available so there is no pressure to get rid of the '16s. 

[aabel]

I was in the same spot you were, and I also only buy used vehicles. I kept my eye on all the sites like Autotrader and ended up finding my white SL with only 22K miles. Miles don't bother me one bit... but the condition of the interior does. You can spot a worn out motor pretty easy on a cold start, and today's engines don't wear out like old carbeurated motors did with loose tolerances etc. Why we judge vehicles on such outdated mileage standards boggles me.

 

Anyhow, just keep looking and you'll find one that fits the bill. I drove 5 hours to San Diego to get mine from a dealer that was a trade in. I didn't originally want white, but I'm really glad I got it now. Even with just tinting the windows makes it look completely different. Add wheels and tires and it's a beast

[aabel]

White can look good, right? New and current:

[Pharomommy]

We recently went thru the same thing. We never ever buy brand new vehicles! It goes against every saving and penny-pinching grain in my body. However we wanted the same thing an SL model and in our area within 150 mile radius there was only 2 available and they were only $1,000 less than a brand new one. So after a ton of research and lots of emails to dealers we ended up with a brand new 2016 with 8 miles on it. We paid $37k out the door (all taxes fees etc..)

I did a blog post on it and I will attach it to this so you can check it out if you're interested. Let me know if you have any questions:)

 

http://veganrunnermommy.blogspot.com/2016/10/me-vs-dealership-how-to-get-best-price.html?m=1

Edited November 30, 2016 by Pharomommy

[mgmoore7]

White can look good, right? New and current:

 

Those trucks do look good.  Especially the one with the step boards.  I have similar on my truck. I bought both of my trucks (Excursion and F150 after they were already 9-10 years old).  Honestly, I do like white the best and really since it won't fit in the garage, it is the best choice in the FL sun.  I have two white trucks now more than 10 years old and they paint on both still looks good.  I had a 15yr old white S10 and most thought it was much newer than it was. It shines up really nice and does not show the scratches/swirls like the darker colors.

 

One thing that does bother me is paying 30k for a 2014 that already will have 2-3 of its 5 year warranty used up but I will have 5 years of payments... I think I am going to try for a 2015 or 2016.

[mgmoore7]

We recently went thru the same thing. We never ever buy brand new vehicles! It goes against every saving and penny-pinching grain in my body. However we wanted the same thing an SL model and in our area within 150 mile radius there was only 2 available and they were only $1,000 less than a brand new one. So after a ton of research and lots of emails to dealers we ended up with a brand new 2016 with 8 miles on it. We paid $37k out the door (all taxes fees etc..)

I did a blog post on it and I will attach it to this so you can check it out if you're interested. Let me know if you have any questions:)

 

http://veganrunnermommy.blogspot.com/2016/10/me-vs-dealership-how-to-get-best-price.html?m=1

 

We are finding the same thing.  The difference in used and new is just not that much.  Now a used 2016 with 10k-15k miles on it listed for 35k-36k, not sure how much I can get them down off of that price.  I was thinking I could probably get them to drop 2k.  KBB trade in value is 33k.   

 

I have read your post and the source post that you referenced (I actually booked marked it).  If we go new, we will definitely use this method.  I don't have time anyway to drive around and sit in multiple dealerships for hours while they play games with me.

 

Thanks for your time to post.  

 

Here is the real question.  Now that you have that payment and the car, do you have any regrets?  :)  You don't have to answer that.  I assume that you are happy with the truck.

[mgmoore7]

White can look good, right? New and current:

 

On that 2nd truck with the after-market wheels, I wonder if they are shorter.  The one thing I don't like about this truck is that it won't fit in our garage.  I went and measured one it and cam to almost 7'2".  If the truck was 6'11", I could probably make it work....  

[Pharomommy]

We are finding the same thing.  The difference in used and new is just not that much.  Now a used 2016 with 10k-15k miles on it listed for 35k-36k, not sure how much I can get them down off of that price.  I was thinking I could probably get them to drop 2k.  KBB trade in value is 33k.   

 

I have read your post and the source post that you referenced (I actually booked marked it).  If we go new, we will definitely use this method.  I don't have time anyway to drive around and sit in multiple dealerships for hours while they play games with me.

 

Thanks for your time to post.  

 

Here is the real question.  Now that you have that payment and the car, do you have any regrets?   :)  You don't have to answer that.  I assume that you are happy with the truck.

 

We saw the same thing, it was crazy the resale is so high for these vans! I guess that is good for us tho, they keep their value! The brand new ones around here are sitting on the lots for over 200 days easy, so the dealership is eager to get rid of them.

 

Glad I could help!! We have 3 littles so car shopping had to be done from home for us, we don't have time to go from dealer to dealer either.   :) Let me know if you have any questions about my method for the best NVP deal. It will work for used ones as well!!

 

Yes we love it!! I wish we would have gotten it sooner haha! But no regrets, we are loving all the space and are looking forward to the road trips in our future. I feel so safe and high up too, that was a huge relief for me having come from a Odyssey.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Pharomommy

[aabel]

I have to say it's the best vehicle we've had also! With 5 little ones (6,4,2,2,1) we needed the space and flexibility for sure. View is great, stance and handling is great for its size, ride is comfortable, and utility to boot. Also, it's the only newer van that can tow anything.

[ASD Dad]

Ditto all the above.  We looked used briefly but wanted the full 5/100K warranty and the prices used were close enough to new it made zero sense to buy used.  The NV is the only vehicle out there right now that can carry a lot of people and tow a decent sized trailer.  The 3/4 Ton Suburbans are no longer sold unless you are a government agency.  Expedition is sort of OK in the XL length.  Transit and Sprinter cant tow much.  The other big Ford E series and Chevy's big vans are ancient technology and feel it.  The new 2017 Armada can tow 8500+ pounds and has the new Titan motor and transmission in it but the new Patrol platform is shorter so you lose 3rd row room and storage behind that row.  Plus they are expensive!  

 

NV is pretty much it if you have a lot of people or stuff and also want to tow something bigger than a  Pop-Up camper.  We have 3 boys - 9, 7, 4 and two 85 pound dogs.  We pull a big toyhauler camper and love the setup.  

[chphilo]

Personally, I buy Toyota/Honda/Nissan new. I would be willing to buy Ford/Chevy/Dodge used. Their resale value drops quickly enough to the extent that makes it worth the risk.

[mgmoore7]

I have been doing some calculations and it all boils down to the discount that can be received on the new or used.  If I can get out the door at 37k like a few have, new is probably the way to go.  If the 35k used one can be gotten for 31k, then that is a different story.  At that point. I would be paying 6k for 1yr of warranty.   With new, I can shop dealers.  With used, I have found 1 in stock in all of Florida that fits our criteria. 

 

 

 

[Chris_CommercialManager]

I have been doing some calculations and it all boils down to the discount that can be received on the new or used.  If I can get out the door at 37k like a few have, new is probably the way to go.  If the 35k used one can be gotten for 31k, then that is a different story.  At that point. I would be paying 6k for 1yr of warranty.   With new, I can shop dealers.  With used, I have found 1 in stock in all of Florida that fits our criteria. 

 

 

I don't know how one could be 37k O.T.D. on a new SL unless you are a business customer and have a tax ID and can get rebates a normal consumer without one can't.  I'm not going to talk numbers, and I don't know taxes where everyone lives but I will say this.  I am the 3rd largest NV dealer in the country meaning I can afford to work on narrower margins than most anyone else, if you don't have a tax ID, and if you happen to be somewhere where you pay 0 sales tax, that number makes no business sense and is not attainable.  In regards to resale, there have NEVER been large rebates on this vehicle, which is why resale is high (especially when comparing to domestics that offer huge rebates and devalue the used market in doing so).  If you are fortunate to be paying cash in your purchase this is irrelevant but please remember on the difference of new and used you will be paying different interest rates as well, so the gap you are looking at may very well narrow.

 

In my market, it makes very little sense to buy a used NVP with 25k on it, resale is too high.  I get calls about them all of the time and I tell people quite frankly that I don't bring them into my store.  Resale is simply too high, when you look at the interest rate difference and the spread in price it makes no sense not to buy new.  80k-100k miles and a few years old is a different story, not everyone can afford a new vehicle price and then maybe it makes sense as opposed to other alternatives in that price range.  Best of luck on your hunt!!

[mgmoore7]

Chris,

Thanks for the reply.  In my case, the interest will be the same on a used 2015/2016 or new 2016 from my credit union since I am pre-approved for 1.99 APR @ 60 mths.

 

 

If I understand correctly thought, the rebate (all of $500 :)  ) is only when using Nissan financing.  

 

The other interesting thing here is that if I could find one with 50k + miles on it and under 20k, I would buy it.  They don't seem to exist.  What I have seen all over the country are all well over 20k.  I am looking all over the SE and used stock is virtually non-existent.  

 

So, with a 2014 with 30k miles on it already used up 2-3yrs of the warranty and a price of still close to 30k, I agree with you, that makes no sense.  If I am going to buy with a loan, I want to have that warranty for most of the loan period.

[Chris_CommercialManager]

As a non tax id client you can get the $500 under any scenario, if the dealership tells you anything other than that they it's probably a lack of understanding of the programs.  You WILL get the $500 if going through your credit union.

 

So obviously I'm in the car business.  Personally I buy almost all of my cars used as well.  However I'm in and out in a year.  My commercial vehicles and clients are a different story and for 99% of my commercial clients (business's) it makes a lot of sense to buy new.  There are some scenarios where buying new does make sense and my personal opinion is that your is one of them.  Not only are you paying up for a used car (high resale values) but you stated your basically going to drive it to the ground.  In that scenario (for me) I'd buy new, probably for no other reason than I would have owned it since new.  I would know I broke it in right.  Drove it easy, changed oil at 500mi and 1500 mi (because that's what I do  :) )  etc etc.  To me, it's piece of mind.  If it were a 10k spread i get it, take the money and run.  Just my .02.  I'm sure you'll do what's right!  Good luck, you will love the van, uber reliable, great ride, on and on and on ;)  

[Pharomommy]

Chris,

Just wanted to clarify... We were able to get our 2016 SL for $37k out the door and we do not have tax ID number that we used. I am just a serious bargan hunter and found dealerships who were willing to take a loss. We have a friend who works at a huge dealer locally and was not able to come close to the price I got. He told me that for $37k out the door the dealership was eating $5k.

 

[Psyched]

Perhaps I'm hijacking this thread, but what about new '16 vs new '17?

 

The 2017 details were released today ( http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-announces-u-s-pricing-for-2017-nv-cargo-van-and-nv-passenger-van) and the only change I see is the V8 engine/transmission and a price increase. 

 

I'm looking to get a NVP SL, and the new vs old engine doesn't seem that different to me since all my test drives the old engine was satisfactory for my needs. Furthermore, who knows how long it will take Quigley or Advanced 4x4 to put together a 4x4 conversion for the new drive train, which is key for me. I'm hoping with the '17s on the horizon I can get a great deal on a '16. Any advice?

 

Also, any advice on buying it with/without a tax id and how to get the best price? I'm buying it as my family vehicle, but I own a business and have a tax id.

[Jasonmar]

 NV is the only vehicle out there right now that can carry a lot of people and tow a decent sized trailer.  The 3/4 Ton Suburbans are no longer sold unless you are a government agency.

[radin2son]

The only commercial dealership in Tucson has zero, new 2016 NVs, not counting 1 NV 200, on the lot. They rarely have more than a few, but this can't be good business. Chris_cm mentioned his dealership the 3rd best NV seller. Wonder where the 1 and 2 markets are? Do they get more NVs to sell?

 

They do have a used 2016 NVP SL for $37,000+ with 17,000+ miles.

[mgmoore7]

Perhaps I'm hijacking this thread, but what about new '16 vs new '17?

 

The 2017 details were released today ( http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-announces-u-s-pricing-for-2017-nv-cargo-van-and-nv-passenger-van) and the only change I see is the V8 engine/transmission and a price increase. 

 

I'm looking to get a NVP SL, and the new vs old engine doesn't seem that different to me since all my test drives the old engine was satisfactory for my needs. Furthermore, who knows how long it will take Quigley or Advanced 4x4 to put together a 4x4 conversion for the new drive train, which is key for me. I'm hoping with the '17s on the horizon I can get a great deal on a '16. Any advice?

 

Also, any advice on buying it with/without a tax id and how to get the best price? I'm buying it as my family vehicle, but I own a business and have a tax id.

 

I don't think you are going to see any 2017's in the dealers until Feb/March, so there is no push for the dealers to get rid of the 2016's.  In addition, the supply is low on these and therefore, there are not big deals on them.  You probably will not find any one dealer that has more than a few SLs.  That makes color choice harder as they won't have alot of choices.  Add the fact that you want a SL and the supply will be even more limited.  The SV is more available.  Nissan is only giving $500 cash back. 

 

For me in the end, it was just about getting the best deal that I could that was fair for both without having to visit multiple dealers.  They probably still made a little $ on me and they moved a vehicle.  I am a fair person, just like I don't want to be worked over, I don't want to work them over too much.  

 

That being said, I did have the attention of the owner and I got more for my trade, was able to use my credit union (many won't discount as much if you don't use Nissan financing) and got them well below invoice and to remove their $1000 Dealer Care that I did not care about.  :)  They still gave it to me to though.  

 

I arrived when the doors opened on Saturday and did all of the negotiations with the Manager and the owner.  They all were a little enthralled with my 4 row Excursion that I traded and that I had 7 kids.  They all were very nice and respectful.  

 

With all of this, I had a verbal promise from another dealer that he would beat any offer of another dealer.  After 3 hours of working the deal, I was not confident that that dealer would be able to beat it enough to spend the rest of the day working on another deal that may or may not have been better and by how much?  I decided to go for it.  They gassed it up and detailed it and even went with me to the bank to get the check for the downpayment.  That sales person was with me for 4 solid hours.  

[aabel]

Mgmoore7, as a salesman myself I appreciate your logic and fairness. I rent and sell equipment, and spend a lot of time with customers helping them on everything from pipelines to cell towers. Nice to hear about fair deals and win/win situations

[radin2son]

Regarding the used 2016 NVP SL for $37k with 17k on the odometer, the shuttle driver this morning told me the owner was transferred to the new CAT facility in Tucson. His wife didn't like the NVP and they bought a Chrysler Pacifica. Jim Click also ownes that dealership.

 

It will be close to 80* and sunny today, so a good time to visit the SW... maybe buy a NVP.

[ASD Dad]

Why on earth would somebody buy a "used" vehicle with 17k miles for a grand less than a brand new one?  That is crazy.  No wonder Chris in Charlotte doesnt want to keep used ones on the lot.