Quigley New and Pre-Owned conversions

[peter_fazio]

Hi Tatunka,

 

   A Quigley employee said that the transfer case was actually a 2 speed, with Lo blocked out, that is interesting.  Any chance that you could look under the truck and verify that there is a "blocker" bracket ?  I am leaning more and more toward getting this conversion done this year.  Honestly, I feel that the van really needs some kind of traction help.  This last winter in PA I got the van stuck on my driveway going into my garage (uphill) on 2 inches of wet snow !  The previous years I had no trouble getting up that same incline using my old Ford E350 that had a rear PowerTrax No-Slip diff locker. 

  Concerning the front diff locker for the AAM 9.25, it appears that they make an e-locker for that application.  I understand the problems of a locker in a steer axle, but I would only use it for low speed, getting unstuck type situations.  There are times when having at least one cross axle diff locker can really save the day.

 

                                                               thanks,

 

                                                                         Pete

[Tatunka]

Honestly I have only used 4x4 a very few times that actually made a difference in traction. I mostly rely on the truck's ELSD and deactivating the traction control, it has worked really well for me. Tires make a huge difference and the stock highway tires are junk as far as traction. I will look for that bracket and take a picture of it.

[Tatunka]

Here are pictures of the bracket that is installed to limit the transfer case to 4HI. I have not removed it yet, so I guess you could say that I don't know for sure that it is a two speed transfer case. That would be correct, but why would that bracket be there at all if it wasn't limiting the transfer case to 4HI? I will remove this bracket shortly, but I wanted to get a OBDII reader first.

 

Here is the bracket, the truck is in 4HI, the linkage moves to the left and is limited by the bracket because the bolt in the linkage is not able to move past the bracket. 

 

 

Here is a bad diagram

 

 

Another angle.

 

 

The bolts holding the bracket on.

 

[Bates]

If I recall correctly the quigley folks told me that going into 4lo causes an error with a sensor in the drive shaft (tail sensor?) and causes limp mode.

 

I'm curious. Keep us updated.

[peter_fazio]

    Tatunka,

 

   Those are great pics you posted of the linkage and "block-out" bracket.  I can see how it works.  You are right though, that the real test would be to remove the bracket and attempt to engage 4Lo.  I notice that the bracket has a stop for 2Hi.  If you remove the bracket would the linkage be able to over-travel past 2Hi ???  Just something to think about before testing w/o the bracket.  Thanks for being willing to be a "test" subject and for providing the info to the other non-4WD members. 

   I am curious about your comments about using 4WD and its effect on traction.  Do you feel that 4WD has not added that much to the tractive capabilities of the NV ?  In my NV, 2013 3500 passenger, I have felt the traction control activate when it was slippery, but it does not feel like it helps very much.  It seems to turn off the engine power too much and will not let me climb up the incline.  You mention turning off traction control and it is better ?  So, pushing the traction control disable button does not turn off traction control ?? I am confused about how the system works.  Any further insight would be appreciated.

 

                                                        thanks,

 

                                                                Pete

[Jon Nelson]

Bates & Peter_Fazio - look up to post #20 in this thread to see my experiences with 4Lo and limp mode

 

I've only turned off traction control once in deep sand after the van tried to slow me down....  (I wanted to keep up speed to get thru the sand and I was probably only going 15-20 max)

[peter_fazio]

  Hi Jon Nelson,

 

  I re-read your post #20.  I think I understand what you are saying about limp mode.  It's a nuisance, but you can kinda' work around it.  What I don't understand is the whole traction control/ABLS/VDC issue.  Tatunka says that it is better to turn off traction control when it is slippery.  Does the disable switch turn off Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC) or Active Brake Limited Slip (ABLS) ???  VDC seems to cut engine power when slip is detected and ABLS is supposed to brake the slipping wheel in an effort to transfer more drive torque to the non-slipping wheel.  I have found that when my "traction control" switch is left on, I get some braking on the slipping wheel but I also get engine power cut down.  I have never tried getting through a slippery section with the "traction control" switch turned off.  I am just not clear how the system is designed to respond.

   Also, do you feel that the addition of the 4WD has added significant tractive capability to your van ?  Presently, in the stock configuration, I will not consider venturing into terrain where the traction appears to be limited.  In my old van, Ford E-350 w/ Powertraxx No-Slip diff locker, I would attempt lots of areas where the traction was limited.  I just want to get some real world advice on this subject before spending almost $12K dollars.

 

                                                        thank you,

 

                                                                      Pete

[Jon Nelson]

Peter

 

I'm not experienced enough to the traction control behavior to comment yet (and I have not driven the van in any wintery road conditions yet. I will say traction control on the Sprinter never went fully off so that may be the case on the Nissan as well.  Looks like it will be a long time before I'm driving the Nissan in snow (since I live in SoCA)

 

Whether something is worth $12k is a very individual question.  And, it's not just the initial $12k.  It's additional fuel $ for every mile due to lower mpg, higher $ repairs down the road, more tires (cause you will tear them up because you "can"), Nissan dealerships reluctant to work on the van, etc.

 

I will say this about my trip this past weekend.  I aired down the tires, put the van in 4Hi, left the transmission in D, and drove all through an area of fairly deep and loose sand which I got stuck in previously in our Sprinter van.  I gained back some of my $ from the 4x4 conversion though pure pleasure and bliss traveling to a rally where two years ago I could just listen to the chatter on the ham radio as I had to turn back and go home since I couldn't through the sand in the Sprinter.

 

I sold the Sprinter and we're going through all the pains of getting an RV conversion finished on the Nissan because I don't want to experience life via chatter on the radio.  I want to BE there!

[Bates]

Thanks for that Jon. I had missed that post my apologies for covering the same ground. Interesting to hear your workaround.

[peter_fazio]

    Jon,

 

  So my takeaway from your comments about the 4WD conversion on the NV is that it has enhanced the drive/tractive capabilities sufficiently to let you drive the van into areas where a 2WD van could not go or would have difficulty.  That is really what I am looking for, as well.  We do offroad motorcyle events that sometimes require us to travel, with a trailer in tow, into areas that are off the paved road.  Previously, with my E-350 w/ diff locker, I have had to resort to putting on my snow/ice chains on the rear wheels to be able to pull my loaded trailer in and out of the event locations.   Thanks for your comments on the subject.

 

                                                       Pete

[Jon Nelson]

We regularly hang out with Sportsmobile "type" Ford van owners - with a variety of engines, gas & diesel - with 4x4 conversions of different types, Quigley, Quadvan, UJoint, and AgileOffroad.   Do I think the NV with 4x4 is as capable?  NO.  Mainly because I am concerned about the less robust nature of the non-one-ton IFS front end that is placed into the NV front end upon 4x4 conversion.  There's a LOT less metal in the front end of our 4x4 NV 4x4 than a 4x4 Ford.  The front diff is maybe half the size.  And the spindles and everything else.

 

BUT, I'm 6'7" tall.  There is no way I want to crawl into a Ford to put groceries into the refrigerator much less spend a week stooped over. inside

 

So we went the NV route.  We can't go as far in our NV as they can in the Fords.  Sometimes we'll have to take an alternate route.  The NV is not a rock crawler or a deep sand machine.  But it's going to get us much further afield than a Sprinter.  And I bet it gets us further afield than a Sprinter 4x4 as well.  I wasn't willing to wait or give up the $ necessary to see if a 2015 4x4 Sprinter was up to the task.

 

Peter, no one else has your trailer and GVW needs or your driving style.  There is only one way to tell if a 4x4NV is going to work for you. Go out and borrow or buy one.  We couldn't do the first so we did the second.

[Tatunka]

Good news is that I took the bracket off and tried to engage 4LO, Bad news is that either it is a single speed xfer case or there is a pattern in the shifter missing. I assumed it was a 2wd-4HI-N-4LO straight line engagement, so either the shifter doesn't travel far enough or something else is going on, I only had a short time to play with it tonight. So my question to Jon Nelson is how does your xfer case engage? and what is the pattern?

 

My experiences with the Traction control/VDC/ELSD is that with it in its normal state the power is cut quite agressively, but with after a moment the vehicle tries to gain the best traction available at the reduced power. With it off the traction control/VDC is off, but the ELSD remains on and you are able to put more power to the wheels and it will try to put equal power to both wheels.

 

My comments on the 4x4 were for normal driving situations, 4x4 is quite effective on the NV. But if you aren't driving off road, I don't think it's nessacary. For me it's worth every penny, it depends on what capabilities you want.

 

I agree that the Quigley NV system isn't the same as the Ford system, the Ford has a solid axle front end whereas the NV/Chevy have an IFS front end. As far as which is better also depends on what you want for capabilities.

 

I bought the NV for the mix of comfort/ride/off road capability and the ability to tow. I didn't need a rock crawler or a dedicated 4x4, but I needed the off road capability. To me the NV fit the bill (minus the diesel) perfectly.

[Jon Nelson]

Tatunka - "I assumed it was a 2wd-4HI-N-4LO straight line engagement,"

 

Thant's the straight line arrangement our Advanced conversion has

[radin2son]

Ford Transit has a Quigley version at the Chicago Auto Show. No details, just a photo.

[peter_fazio]

   Tatunka,

 

   Thanks for checking out your transfer case.  I guess it is still inconclusive as to whether or not it is actually a 2 speed, but I think for now I will just assume that only 1 speed will be available.  My impression from everybody's input is the the 4WD conversion definitely adds to the "off the beaten" path / adventure vehicle use of the NV. 

 

                                                     thanks,

 

                                                             Pete

[peter_fazio]

   Jon Nelson,

 

  I noticed in your post #13 in the "wheel/tire size that fit" thread that you have an Aluminess front bumper on your NV.  I just placed an order for an Aluminess bumper that is very much like yours, except that mine will have the round openings for the Hella 500 lights.  I had a quick question about the installation.  On the stock bumper beam (the beam behind the chrome bumper), which is removed during the Aluminess install,  there are threaded holes for securing the oil cooler lines and the front of the lower plastic engine guard.  Do you know if the Aluminess bumper comes with a provision for securing these 2 items after the stock bumper beam is removed ?

 

                                  thanks,

 

                                          Pete

[Jon Nelson]

Peter -

 

I have no idea about the front bumper installation.  My was installed at Aluminess and took 3+ hours.  LOTS of Nissan parts were in a pile after they were done!  

 

I'll have to check my oil cooler lines.  I bet they are dangling now.

 

I can tell you there are no holes or provision for the plastic engine guard with the Aluminess bumper.  You'll have to fashion a front support OR a totally new engine guard after installing the Aluminess bumper.  I've "sort" of secured mine but I'll have a proper guard/skid plate made in the future.  Also, the Nissan plastic engine guard has to be removed each time an oil change is done in order to access the oil filter.  Poor design on Nissan's part! 

[peter_fazio]

   Jon,

 

  Thanks for the info about the bumper.  I'll call Aluminess and see if they can add a bracket to secure those parts.

 

                          thanks,

 

                                 Pete