NV vs Sprinter vs ? 4x4 family van

[Psyched]

I'm looking to replace my '06 Sprinter passenger van with something that has 4x4. (I had to put tire chains on nine times to go skiing this winter!)

 

This is my daily driver/family van (six kids), and the second Sprinter I've owned. I love it but I'm getting sick of making repairs on it (only 110k miles). It's a pain to find someone who will work on it and has a clue what they're doing.  

 

I'm seriously leaning toward a Nissan NV with a lift and 4x4 conversion because it comes with a 5-year warranty vs. Mercedes 3-year offering, and it would be much easier/cheaper to find service when needed.

 

Nissan NV: quieter, rides better, side-curtain air bags, tows almost twice as much as a Sprinter, lower roof without external a/c - better for garage and ski racks.

 

Mercedes Sprinter: factory 4x4, better seating and more cargo space, full electronic safety package (blind spot, collision avoidance, etc). And I love the rubber floor of the Sprinter.

 

Any real-world feedback or other options I should consider? And why doesn't anyone make a van with seats that recline?!!!

[Chris_CommercialManager]

I sold sprinters for quite some time, I'm a big fan.  They have their place and for certain people they are the right fit.  

 

However I needed not read past the part where you said you are tired of making repairs (110k).  Your specific year sprinter, 2.7 5cyl,  has been regarded as the most reliable version ever imported into the country, by a mile.  Just some food for thought.  And add to that, this is the first year for the 4x4?  I personally never buy anything it's first year out.  Too many bugs and kinks to work out of a platform that already needs more maintenance than the average vehicle.

 

If you want something you put gas in and go, and the NV has enough space inside to accommodate your needs, the nv will provide you with great resale and as frustration free operation as your going to find by any manufacturer.  PS, sell your sprinter on the open market, don't trade it in.  It's worth good money on craigslist or auto trader but a dealer that is not familair with them with think to the contrary.  I would have that model in my back lot many times doing walks with customers to my inventory that had 500k miles on them original drive train and tranny.  Virtually nothing on them would work but when you put the key in it would go ha.   Without knowing wheelbase or your specific market, even if it's beat up it should be worth 12-13k or if nice 15k.  I'd imagine there are plenty of people in Northern CA in the "agriculture" business that would find that vehicle very desirable if you couldn't find a local tradesman or don't have much of a European population that go crazy for those 5cyls.. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Chris_CommercialManager

[Psyched]

Thanks Chris! We really do love our sprinter, but it seems to be in the shop at every 3-6 months (a/c pulleys, turbo exhaust hose, glow plugs, etc). It's a 140" low-top passenger model. It's in good condition, there's not much market for it here in Reno but it's super popular in California for rock climbers and such, and in Utah for big families.

 

Any idea when Nissan will put electronic collision warning/braking safety features into the NV? And is there anything big on the horizon that would make it worth waiting to get an NV? 

[Mc2guy]

The Ford Transit rear seat recline in certain trim options, however, I'm not sure of aftermarket 4x4 conversion support.

 

The Nissan is certainly more reliable than the Sprinter on average, however, not infallible.  Mine has left my family stranded twice in the last 6 months.  Both were warranty claims paid by Nissan.  The first, issue (crankshaft sensor) was a $6000 repair that I thankfully didn't have to pay for.  Also consider your proximity to a Nissan dealership certified to work on the NV.  Both times I've broken down, I have had issues with the local dealership (near my breakdown) not being able to perform any work on the vehicle, requiring a second tow.  One reason I'm getting rid of the Nissan is that I drive cross country with my family every year and if I had a breakdown on the road, there are large swaths of the U.S. that lack Nissan Commercial Vehicle support (similar to Sprinter).  Having experienced the hassle, I'm not willing to take that risk.

 

Not trying to steer you away from the NV, it sounds like it is a good option for you to consider, but go in with an informed position.

[Psyched]

Thanks for your insights Mc2guy, sorry to hear about your hassles. I'm open to any vehicle, what I'm really looking for is:

 

- reliability, 10+ passengers, 4x4, convenient passenger access. It would be nice if it has a towing capacity >6500 lbs and a comfortable, quiet ride.

 

Any suggestions? We love the utility of the sprinter but not the reliability and no 4x4. Love the 4x4 of a suburban but not the passenger convenience. I'd really love a safari-version Toyota Landcruiser, but that can not be imported to the USA. So from my research I think the NV is the best compromise.

[radin2son]

If you go with a NV and want 4x4, buy it through the NV dealership. This way you won't have any warranty issues along the lines of "not my work, so no warranty." The NV choice seems to be Advanced or Quigley.

 

You may pay more (dealer markup), but it probably is worth it. PM the owners on this forum who bought their 4x4s this way; both Advanced and Quigley are represented.

[Mc2guy]

Thanks for your insights Mc2guy, sorry to hear about your hassles. I'm open to any vehicle, what I'm really looking for is:

 

- reliability, 10+ passengers, 4x4, convenient passenger access. It would be nice if it has a towing capacity >6500 lbs and a comfortable, quiet ride.

 

Any suggestions? We love the utility of the sprinter but not the reliability and no 4x4. Love the 4x4 of a suburban but not the passenger convenience. I'd really love a safari-version Toyota Landcruiser, but that can not be imported to the USA. So from my research I think the NV is the best compromise.

 

Seems like you are pretty limited given your needs.  The NV is probably as good as any option and it seems I am a rarity in terms of reliability.  That said, I'd look long and hard at a Transit 350 with the ecoboost engine.  Apparently Quigley is converting them now and that is a vastly more advanced motor/drivetrain than the Nissan.  The dealer network alone is probably worth the premium you would pay over the NV (subjectively for me it is at least).  So far the 3.5 ecoboost has shown very strong reliability (lots on the road and very limited problems other than some well documented moisture in the air intake box on some early F150s).

 

The tow capacity of the Transit is lower due to the pseudo unit body construction, however, if you study the GVWR and options list, you can get to 5000 fairly easy in a single rear wheel, and 7500 in the DRW. 

 

http://www.quigley4x4.com/portals/0/docs/ford/pricing/2016%20ford%20transit%20retail%20pricelist%20rev1.0.pdf

 

Good luck.

[ASD Dad]

You cant get anywhere near that tow rating on a passenger Transit.  We looked long and hard at them prior to the NV due to dealer network and spoke to several dealerships about it.  The rating just isnt there.  The top of the line model with the biggest motor (that V6 turbo) was still under 5000# if you added the numbers up with passengers and cargo.  

 

With the CARGO Transit you can get up there but you arent going to be carrying anybody but a passenger.

 

I dont know why Ford shot themselves with that rating and capacity.  They can build their HD F150 to tow 10,000 lbs plus then put that motor in a week chassis for the van.  

 

==============

 

To the OP = Psyched - if you could get by with just 8 passengers I would look at the new Nissan Armada when it comes out.  It's based off the Nissan Patrol which is Nissans answer to the Toyota Landcruiser for the world.  Truck chassis, big motor (the new 5.6 with way more power than the current model), better transmission and factory 4x4.  

[Psyched]

AS Dad - 

Thanks for mentioning the Armada. We just got back from a mission trip to Africa and I fell in love with their Land Cruiser Safari rigs set up for ten passengers. Unfortunately importing one of those into the US is nearly impossible. I have six children so we need 8 passengers minimum, but it seems like we fill up our 10 pax sprinter often. I looked at a Land Cruiser yesterday but the third row seating is not practical. I guess I really need to decide between towing capacity, passenger capacity, and reliability.

[Chris_CommercialManager]

Seems like you are pretty limited given your needs.  The NV is probably as good as any option and it seems I am a rarity in terms of reliability.  That said, I'd look long and hard at a Transit 350 with the ecoboost engine.  Apparently Quigley is converting them now and that is a vastly more advanced motor/drivetrain than the Nissan. 

 

I hate to say this but the experience you have had is a unique one to say the least, and I'm sorry your vehicle hasn't brought you the reliability that it has to my fleet of customers.  I realize I'm selling this product and as such my view may be skewed.  But I can sell honda's, toyota's, ford's, or any other brand under our very large umbrella.  On my NV's, no kidding, the largest repair that I have seen in a year and a half was my personal locksmith on the lot.  he needed an AC unit replaced with 120k on it.  As far as run time was concerned, he idles his truck all day everyday on the lot to run his inverters and power his air.  Idling and idling and idling.  Probably the most rigourous torture test out there, engines love to be run, not idled.  So throw the 120k miles out the window.  These things are so reliable.  My business owners and companies that run them REAL hard, towing bobcats, granite slabs, etc etc do not break them.  I personally drove one with right under 300k on it and it did not feel "worn out" in any sense.  From the seats, to the interior, to mechanically it was in good shape.  He went through an alternator or two, some sets of plugs, etc, but no major failure.

 

We own a ford store, I can tell you for a fact that the ecoboost in anything other than unloaded form suffers greatly on mpg.  Medium or heavy loads forget about it, it's on par with every other gas engine moving a box through the wind going down the highway.  

 

There is nothing in store that we know of for the NVP in the "near" future.  Sales are so good, don't think a change is imminent at this point in time.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Chris_CommercialManager

[Mc2guy]

You cant get anywhere near that tow rating on a passenger Transit.  We looked long and hard at them prior to the NV due to dealer network and spoke to several dealerships about it.  The rating just isnt there.  The top of the line model with the biggest motor (that V6 turbo) was still under 5000# if you added the numbers up with passengers and cargo.  

 

With the CARGO Transit you can get up there but you arent going to be carrying anybody but a passenger.

 

I dont know why Ford shot themselves with that rating and capacity.  They can build their HD F150 to tow 10,000 lbs plus then put that motor in a week chassis for the van.  

 

==============

 

To the OP = Psyched - if you could get by with just 8 passengers I would look at the new Nissan Armada when it comes out.  It's based off the Nissan Patrol which is Nissans answer to the Toyota Landcruiser for the world.  Truck chassis, big motor (the new 5.6 with way more power than the current model), better transmission and factory 4x4.  

You're correct.  I rechecked my research and the rating I saw was limited to the cargo versions...

 

My new F150 3.5 ecoboost 4x4 w/Max Tow package is rated for 11,900 lbs towing with a 3.55 rear end with electronic locker (FX4 package).  You'd think Ford would see the market and uprate the Transit, then again maybe they view the "big family that needs more than 8 seats and ALSO wants to tow" market as too small to justify the incremental engineering.  I have to figure it's a pretty small market demand that requires all of that?

Edited April 14, 2016 by Mc2guy

[ASD Dad]

The new F150's are towing kings for a 1/2 Ton truck.  The Aluminum body weight savings gave them that much more payload to use and add for towing.  I dont really consider the new Titan XD Cummins a true half ton truck.  It's more like a 5/8 ton!  

 

Chris is right about the mileage though.  If it is empty and you can stay out of the turbos you'll see decent mileage.  The second you need to spool them up a lot like towing or just getting your foot into it a lot the mileage will drop just like running their 5.0 V8 or any other V8 out there.  Just cant fool plain old physics!  

Edited April 14, 2016 by ASD Dad

[axulsuv]

You're correct.  I rechecked my research and the rating I saw was limited to the cargo versions...

 

My new F150 3.5 ecoboost 4x4 w/Max Tow package is rated for 11,900 lbs towing with a 3.55 rear end with electronic locker (FX4 package).  You'd think Ford would see the market and uprate the Transit, then again maybe they view the "big family that needs more than 8 seats and ALSO wants to tow" market as too small to justify the incremental engineering.  I have to figure it's a pretty small market demand that requires all of that?

And your F150 has a Frame !!! :) As you know the transit is just a unibody , so will never be a proper tow vehicle ! :)

Glenn

[Psyched]

I spent much of the morning visiting with Advanced 4x4 about an NV conversion and with QuadVan about a Transit conversion. It seems like the NV is filling the void left by the E series vans (capable, burly, towing gas hogs), and that the Transit is taking over the territory of Sprinter vans (effcient, poor ground clearance, weak towing). The Sprinter is having a hard time keeping up with the competition, and Dodge rules for plain ugliness.